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If you are unlicensed...

General HAM Radio topics. A great place for both experienced operators and for newbies to get started and ask questions

Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby danthman114 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:33 pm

roger o wrote:
arkieready wrote:Some guys won't sell to someone without a license. That's legal, but silly and high brow (imho). Like not selling eggs unless the buyer is a chef.


Arkieready, it's far from "silly and high brow". The main reason for not selling ham equipment to non licensed persons is to prohibit the bands from becoming like CB radio has become. It would be really bad for a true emergency call to be delayed or impossible to hear because of some joker with a linear amp is calling "breaker, breaker" non stop, and not following protocol.

IMHO, It is unfortunate that the FCC removed the code proficiency portion from the licensing exam. It was a good way of learning a skill, and yet another way to limit the jokers from the bands. Far from silly and high brow.

It is unfortunate indeed that the Government has to stand in and prevent just anyone from using the bands, but it does serve a purpose, similar to the licensing exam needed to become a pilot. Do you realize how unsafe the airways would be if all you needed to fly a plane is the money to buy one? Just look at boating, and how unsafe that has become because of the lack of a license...

It is relatively easy to get a technicians license. You'll learn a new skill, and have fun speaking to like minded individuals. A Merry Christmas to all!

73,

whats silly is that the government thinks they have the right to own the airwaves or tell us we cant do something that hurts nobody. that's silly. I don't have a license but I can assure you that I will be on my radio if something ever happened. that you can count on...
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby orangetom1999 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:24 pm

I know a number of people with ham rated gear and lots of frequency coverage ..and no license.

I don't see many of them using this gear on the ham bands..or out of band...but they do have the equipment. Amplifiers too.

You can buy these radios off Amazon and they do not ask for a license. They have never asked me for my license. If they did I would ask them why they need it??

I know certain outlets...like Amateur Radio Electronics and Ham Radio Outlet ask you for your call sign..but there are other places to get gear without a license.

You just have to be able to think outside the box of what most people are capable...you have to be able to think for yourself.

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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby dlbenx2 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:16 pm

Full disclosure! I have my ticket already. Having said that, I have given many presentations in my area on emergency communications. My first and most important point is "Get Started". From CB to walmart walkies, shortwave, and unused android phones, obselete internet routers, comm's are important. I wouldn't say i would not talk to an unlicensed caller but, I have not gotten to know you(over air), can I trust your info. Long distance contacts are done on an HF rig. Can you tune your antenna? Tune to different bands? Do you know the conditions to use various bands? Hf rig has 30 plus buttons and knobs, 1,000's of frequencies. What does what? And why?

First and foremost! Get Started! BUT, You have to get smart. There is no way you will operate after it's too late without knowledge and practice. You can not possibly figure it all out on the fly. Besides that I have met many Prepper Minded people thru Ham Radio. Not all ham's are preppers. But many are. Our Ham network here is reliable, trusted, and good folks.

Good Luck! $20 CB at the fleamarket is a comm's start.
I prep to provide, God provides to prep. P!
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby Scoutmaster » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:27 am

First and foremost! Get Started! BUT, You have to get smart. There is no way you will operate after it's too late without knowledge and practice. You can not possibly figure it all out on the fly.Long distance contacts are done on an HF rig. Can you tune your antenna? Tune to different bands? Do you know the conditions to use various bands? Hf rig has 30 plus buttons and knobs, 1,000's of frequencies. What does what? And why? Besides that I have met many Prepper Minded people thru Ham Radio


Well said and very true :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
PREPPERS SAVE THE EXCUSES, IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING TIME, IT'S ABOUT MAKING TIME, IF IT MATTERS YOU WILL HAVE TIME
Every one has priorities, different for each of us, main reasons most of us can not form a group that will last our priorities are all different so are you. REMEMBER, IF YOUR PREP PRIORITIES ARE LOWER THEN THE PEOPLE YOU CAN'T WORK WITH, THEY MIGHT MAKE IT AND YOU WON'T, DON'T BLAME THEM FOR NOT OFFERING YOU HELP LATER, WHEN YOU FAIL LATER AND YOUR IN TROUBLE. BLAME YOUR PRIORITIES.
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:55 am

Ham type radios read out in digital frequencies..not in channels.

The only time you "may " see channel numbers is in the memory storage channels.

This means you have to know the digital number of the frequency to which you intend to use or QSY.....not channels.

This tends to befuddle so many new operators who only know how to go to a channel where the frequency is not shown and as such is preset for the operator...only the channel number is shown.

Most haven't a clue as to what is the frequency on which one is operationg. Hence they also have no clue as to how the frequency band or spectrum is stacked up or spread out....what various bands are available.
It takes some study and practice to get accustomed to this.

Some operating bands are sufficiently wide ..it often requires retuning ones antenna when you move your frequency dial.

This is one reason it is best to get your license and training in good times..not after the SHTF.

You may also want to know how to work split frequency..use a tighter directional antenna....work very low power with a tight directional antenna...change polarities on your antenna..so as not to be so detectable. Change modes of operation...et al. Radios are even being made today with digital scramblers in them...and on the market. They are not too expensive as well.

These are methods of controlling ones station...and visible profile ...which takes some training by which to become familiar with them..fluent if you like.

But this takes time and training to become fluent in this/these techniques. Ham radio is not like a television where you only use a remote and go to a channel already preset for you.

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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby Scoutmaster » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:41 pm

Well Said :thumbsup:

But I am sure the standard answer will be you are just trying to scare them.
I put it in the same categories as those that watch U-tube to learn preping
But then never try it. or use it, or go further. I figure there will be lots listening with blown finals.
licensed in 1968
PREPPERS SAVE THE EXCUSES, IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING TIME, IT'S ABOUT MAKING TIME, IF IT MATTERS YOU WILL HAVE TIME
Every one has priorities, different for each of us, main reasons most of us can not form a group that will last our priorities are all different so are you. REMEMBER, IF YOUR PREP PRIORITIES ARE LOWER THEN THE PEOPLE YOU CAN'T WORK WITH, THEY MIGHT MAKE IT AND YOU WON'T, DON'T BLAME THEM FOR NOT OFFERING YOU HELP LATER, WHEN YOU FAIL LATER AND YOUR IN TROUBLE. BLAME YOUR PRIORITIES.
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:47 pm

Ahh....good point made there Scoutmaster...good point.

I was not thinking along those lines when I posted that but It was not intended to scare people away....only to outline the facts.

Any discipline worth learning can be difficult at times. But we will be learning something the rest of our lives..like it or not.

Difficulty and discipline are what you make it..but under the right conditions can pay big dividends...verses being stuck with high maintenance people with no disciplines and only high consumption rates.
If you have no disciplines or skills ..high maintenance people around you can be even more difficult



I have been there after a hurricane with high maintenance people who have no real hard times, difficulty skills, so I have a ruler by which to gauge this sort of thing.

I put up my roll up 2 meter J pole antenna up about 25 feet into the tree out front and ran my Radio Shack 2 meter mobile from a olde car battery I kept around here. I found out where they had electricity and were pumping gasoline without having to burn up precious gasoline to find gasoline as were so many around here.
Had shortwave set too...HF/am/fm...SSB too. HF transmitter took up to much battery life ..though I had a generator..it was primarily for keeping the reefer and freezer going and here at night and it was at my parents house charging their freezer and reefer in the daytime ..then back here at night.

But the olde car battery lasted the whole time and I did not turn on my two meter mobile ...only as needed to keep track of local events and the local traffic on certain repeaters/nets..but it worked out as a system.
It was interesting how many people had not prepared for anything but tonight's game...not bad weather. Within a few days...anyone with a gas grill or charcoal was cooking up the contents of their refrigerator or freezer...use it or loose it. Not here or at my parents house.

Since then I have purchased another larger capacity generator.

But the point is ..I had thought all this out ahead of time...particularly the comms. The Shortwave/SSB rig...AM/FM was the primary. But for certain specifics..I used the Two meter set up. It was an olde HTX 212 mobile radio. I have since updated but still keep it around just in case.
But you have to know some disciplines to think this kind of thing through...to have it on tap ..to set up on the go/run.
I am ever grateful to the olde timers..the elmers for schooling me on fabricating my own antennas...it paid off here.
Even before I had my ticket..the old timers were showing me how to make simple 11 meter dipoles for very little monies.

It paid off. They encouraged me to get my ticket. One olde Elmer...even told me I would make Extra class...even before I thought it through.
He said ...so and so will not ..but you and this other fellow will. It was like he had radar or such. LOL LOL. It turned out exactly as he stated.
We both made Extra Class.

Silent key...WA4YOB...I miss Bonner Johnson. RIP. He never gave up on me getting my ticket.

You could hear the grin on his face..ear to ear... when I called him from my last testing session and said..."Temporary AE."
I will remember that day for the rest of my life...the grin I could hear on Bonner's face when he replied back to me...letting him know he was right all along.

I miss Bonner... He never gave up on me.


Having some basic skills came in handy. So too running a chainsaw....mixing two cycle gasoline..sharpening a chain..by hand..etc etc.
I now keep a couple of car batteries in my garage on trickle chargers ..even a marine battery...for just such needs .. A spare G5RV too.

RAdio skills can come in very handy when the SHTF. But it helps greatly to know certain details ahead of time. A ham radio is not a CB or one of these Wal Mart Walkie talkies.

This is not intended to frighten the readers away..but to encourage them to get trained ahead of SHTF....so that it pays dividends when hard conditions start pinching on ones backside....tightly. This way you have more options than most.
It is not a good idea to close the gate after the cows have gotten out....so to speak.

When you see a field day going on ..and hams are set up in a tent..out in the field...portable set ups...even towers...antennas...batteries..generators et al..these are field/emergency conditions. This is a drill and they are often rated on how well they do. A skill test. Working as a team.

Find a ham...learn...ahead of SHTF. Don't close the gate after the cows have already gotten out.

Get your ticket. I put it off a long time ...but they never gave up on me...the olde Elmers. I'm glad they did not.

Thanks,
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby Scoutmaster » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:13 pm

Yep you hit the nail on the head again
discipline

That is where most fail or just do not have. It is to easy to set and let others do it or say I can't spend weekends partying rather
than preping But also as you say most do not think ahead at all. I guess that is why i feel less and less sorry for them every day.

I never went for the gold ring but have had my general for almost 50 years built dozens of linked repeater systems, sometime several at a time. Never got overly interested in chasing HF or working all country's until recently when I started traveling around the US. Found it nice to keep in contact with the guys at home. It is fun But don't tell anyone.
PREPPERS SAVE THE EXCUSES, IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING TIME, IT'S ABOUT MAKING TIME, IF IT MATTERS YOU WILL HAVE TIME
Every one has priorities, different for each of us, main reasons most of us can not form a group that will last our priorities are all different so are you. REMEMBER, IF YOUR PREP PRIORITIES ARE LOWER THEN THE PEOPLE YOU CAN'T WORK WITH, THEY MIGHT MAKE IT AND YOU WON'T, DON'T BLAME THEM FOR NOT OFFERING YOU HELP LATER, WHEN YOU FAIL LATER AND YOUR IN TROUBLE. BLAME YOUR PRIORITIES.
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby cauhape » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:16 pm

I think we're overlooking a legal means to operate a ham radio without a license - when there is a control operator present.

Suppose Aunt Bee wants to talk to some friends via ham radio, and she doesn't have a license.
She does know of a ham radio operator on the other end though. I get ahold of the other operator
and we schedule a time for Aunt Bee and friends to talk.

At the appointed time either I call the other operator, or they call me. Once we establish a connection,
we hand the microphones over to Aunt Bee and her friends. This is "third party traffic" and is perfectly
legal provided that there is a control operator at each end who can intervene if there are problems,
and either both ends of the connection are in the US or if one end is not in the US, it's in a country
which has a third party traffic agreement with the US.

Likewise, if Aunt Bee only has a Tech License and wants to talk to someone on the HF bands, she can
do so as long as there is General Class licensee (or higher) present to act as control operator. In this
case she gives both her own call sign and the call sign of the control operator. In this scenario she has
the frequency privileges of the control operator 'on loan' to her.

So... while I encourage folks to get their ham licenses, it's possible to use ham radio without a license
if have a friendly ham who lives close enough to be practical.

K7BCV
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Re: If you are unlicensed...

Postby sageprice » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:30 pm

Sigh, you all talk about equipment and requirements. Why not talk about knowledge and skills. Can you build a spark gap transmitter from scratch. How about a receiver, or an antenna. Then there is a problem of broadcasting your location. IS THAT SMART? If there is any real SHTF event, you might try thinking about out living the bum who wants your food and water. Who is going to care if you are unlicensed?
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