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A sad day for this nation.

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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby daaswampman » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:01 am

We are all free to believe any version of the incident we choose to! Both sides have an agenda and neither has given me any reason to believe them. I have watched the videos and I agree he MAY HAVE decided to surrender during the final moments. I doubt that makes much of a difference outside Hollywood.

The key points is he choose to escalate the situation, he was armed, he had stated his intentions, and he put others in harms way! Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby Dirk Williams » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:36 am

Swamp, in Oregon being armed is not a crime, to THINK so,some is goi g to pull a gun is called a " Hunch" nor can police invoke that rationale. In Oregon it's against the law to move at a moving vehicle, even if the police " thought" the truck was goi g to ram the road block.

In Oregon the Police can't create the exigent circumstances, by positioning a hasty road block on a corner, concealing the location and allowing, I think the report indicated 360 ft to get a vehicle traveling at 70 mph, to get stopped.

In Oregon the Police can not shoot at a person for exiting his vehicle. Attempted murder is not a good starting point for a police investigation.

Swamp at the time of the shooting the crimes committed by LaVoy were misd, trespassing, and then blowing a traffic stop. Both routine, no big deal , happens everyday. They, " the police" positioned the roadblock, so,they knew in advance that one of two outcomes were potential,

In fact after viewing Shana Coxs video from inside the car, I think it's apparent that LaVoy Finicum did a fantastic job, of NOT intentionally killing anybody. Had his intent been to harm the police, don't you think plowing a 6 thousand pound truck into them would have been far more effective then exiting his truck with a pissy 9 mm in a secured pocket in his inner jacket.

He's complicit to a point, for a couple misd crimes. To that point.

Swamp, he was murdered it's plain as day. We are " conditioned" by govt, to just except their word, their wisdom. Look where it's gotten up.

I've objectively followed this, from the position of,someone who DOES NOT support the refuge occupation. In and of itself, these events are two clearly different events.

I recently had an old associate explain to,me that the " automobile exception" was in play, and the police needed to get into the truck quickly to preserve any/all evidence. What a knuckle head.

I quit drinking the kool aid along time ago. My heart is sad, for the loss of this life, and for the police officers who committed this crime.

Respectfully.
Dirk Williams

What changed the dynamics of this event were the response by the police. His actions for most of us police were, jus another day at work, don't sweat it, handle it with the tools you have. It isn't a nail, and they aren't hammers.

This was murder, plain and simple.
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby daaswampman » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:50 pm

Dirk Williams wrote:Swamp, in Oregon being armed is not a crime, to THINK so,some is goi g to pull a gun is called a " Hunch" nor can police invoke that rationale. In Oregon it's against the law to move at a moving vehicle, even if the police " thought" the truck was goi g to ram the road block.

In Oregon the Police can't create the exigent circumstances, by positioning a hasty road block on a corner, concealing the location and allowing, I think the report indicated 360 ft to get a vehicle traveling at 70 mph, to get stopped.

In Oregon the Police can not shoot at a person for exiting his vehicle. Attempted murder is not a good starting point for a police investigation.

Swamp at the time of the shooting the crimes committed by LaVoy were misd, trespassing, and then blowing a traffic stop. Both routine, no big deal , happens everyday. They, " the police" positioned the roadblock, so,they knew in advance that one of two outcomes were potential,

In fact after viewing Shana Coxs video from inside the car, I think it's apparent that LaVoy Finicum did a fantastic job, of NOT intentionally killing anybody. Had his intent been to harm the police, don't you think plowing a 6 thousand pound truck into them would have been far more effective then exiting his truck with a pissy 9 mm in a secured pocket in his inner jacket.

He's complicit to a point, for a couple misd crimes. To that point.

Swamp, he was murdered it's plain as day. We are " conditioned" by govt, to just except their word, their wisdom. Look where it's gotten up.

I've objectively followed this, from the position of,someone who DOES NOT support the refuge occupation. In and of itself, these events are two clearly different events.

I recently had an old associate explain to,me that the " automobile exception" was in play, and the police needed to get into the truck quickly to preserve any/all evidence. What a knuckle head.

I quit drinking the kool aid along time ago. My heart is sad, for the loss of this life, and for the police officers who committed this crime.

Respectfully.
Dirk Williams

What changed the dynamics of this event were the response by the police. His actions for most of us police were, jus another day at work, don't sweat it, handle it with the tools you have. It isn't a nail, and they aren't hammers.

This was murder, plain and simple.


How can you say you are objective when you have already made up your mind? It is easy to be an armchair judge and jury, but we only have the information both sides want us to have. In Oregon as in the rest of the United States, the decision of guilt or innocence is up to the courts.

In Louisiana it is legal to carry a weapon, but that changes if you are committing a crime or useing it for intimidation. Blowing through a roadblock is not a minor crime and an escalation. His arrogance is what got him killed, honestly it looked like a suicide. What in the hell was he thinking, given the history leading up to this event. A persons intention is very much part of the law. The whole thing was pointless, accomplished nothing, and a waste of human life. I will correct that, it did make gun people look like ncomplete fools. Nor is it over, we have all the triles to put up with. I am sure Bundy's will be entertaining and embarrasing. Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby Dirk Williams » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:13 pm

Hi swamp. I get what your saying. Ive now received and reviewed a moderately redacted copy of this investigations formal report. It's like 360 ish pages long.

I have now spoken with 4 cops who were present in Burns, but not at the actual shooting. All are swat officers for their respective agencies. My position hasn't changed. Only time will tell if these 20 year relationships will survive. I will say we agreed on more then we didn't agree on.

If you want a copy of the report, email me and I will forward a copy to you, for review.


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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby daaswampman » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:01 pm

Dirk Williams wrote:Hi swamp. I get what your saying. Ive now received and reviewed a moderately redacted copy of this investigations formal report. It's like 360 ish pages long.

I have now spoken with 4 cops who were present in Burns, but not at the actual shooting. All are swat officers for their respective agencies. My position hasn't changed. Only time will tell if these 20 year relationships will survive. I will say we agreed on more then we didn't agree on.

If you want a copy of the report, email me and I will forward a copy to you, for review.


Dirk


Please do not misunderstand me! I hope this incident gets its day in court. In general I support our law officers and judicial system! They are the only ones maintaining any semblance of order in a country deeply divided and filled with hate. Every side wanting to take things into their own hands, think they are right and are being treated unfairly! To allow any one group to take it into their own hands, regardless of their argument is throwing away what little freedom we still have.

There is lots of talk about some sort of revolution, but it is all talk with no plan once they put the evil Feds in place! Personally I don't buy the States Rights Movement. I am a citizen of the Unithed States and should maintain the same rights and be subject to the same rules wherever I live or travel in this country! How many States have you visited in the last year? For me it is nine and the Constitution and Bill of Rights should protect me wherever I travel.

I sincerely believe we are past the point of reason. Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:42 am

I certainly agree with this, I want it all to be uniform.

There is lots of talk about some sort of revolution, but it is all talk with no plan once they put the evil Feds in place! Personally I don't buy the States Rights Movement. I am a citizen of the United States and should maintain the same rights and be subject to the same rules wherever I live or travel in this country! How many States have you visited in the last year? For me it is nine and the Constitution and Bill of Rights should protect me wherever I travel.

I sincerely believe we are past the point of reason. Swamp


Very well said.
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby Dirk Williams » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:10 am

Agreed.

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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby Dirk Williams » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:23 am

Well I can't say that I've mellowed on this murder, I recently reviewed the govt Email string, like 600 emails between Oregon state govt, and others involved.

Took the time to read every one of them. What has tripped my trigger regarding these emails is who is in the management loop. Portland State university, Oregon state university and multiple civilians conservation organizations, were involved in providing input, and resource management.

For me this tidbit is truly frightening. Frankly I had zero idea as to exactly how involved these climate nazis are attached to our leaders in state government.

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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby RayMac1963 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:30 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2594565

DW, its not just the Feds. I'm a strong supporter of police, but if we have got to get some additional training and non-lethal options on the table. As with most trends, what happens in the minority community first spreads to the greater society. Be it drugs, unemployment, whatever social ills, or police violence.
I can't help but think God is up there right now saying "its time to shake the ol' Etch-A-Sketch and restart humanity again".



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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby daaswampman » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:38 pm

Dirk Williams wrote:Well I can't say that I've mellowed on this murder, I recently reviewed the govt Email string, like 600 emails between Oregon state govt, and others involved.

Took the time to read every one of them. What has tripped my trigger regarding these emails is who is in the management loop. Portland State university, Oregon state university and multiple civilians conservation organizations, were involved in providing input, and resource management.

For me this tidbit is truly frightening. Frankly I had zero idea as to exactly how involved these climate nazis are attached to our leaders in state government.

DW


While I do not share your passion for this incident, you are absolutely correct that something is very wrong with special interest involvement. Nor is it just the environmental groups. It you look into these groups, the balance sheets, and the "Who's Who" membership, you quickly realize who is going to win.

Cattle ranching is like coal mining to them, and they no more care about the price of beef than they care about the price of energy. Nor is it going to stop there. If we survive that long, I would expect to see these attacks expand to raising all large animals, public access to most public land, all trapping, all hunting and most fishing.

Gun control will not be far behind. For those still clinging to the second and thinking it will protect your rights, go out and try to buy a military grade weapon and them tell me you were not infringed. Or do you think a well regulated militia does not need state of the art weapons. Sorry fellow frogs the water is getting very warm. Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby ajax727 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:34 pm

Dw I agree there is something very wrong with the shooting .When you plan to kill and do it then you go to prison when the powers that be plan to kill they get a raise and a pat on the back for a job well done ..+..

As I have stated before if it don't have a direct effect on them it don't matter .
Tobacco was the first thing they went after and you see the results . Coal is now being attacked and you see the results and soon will feel the effects .
They have been after the big animal farms and if they get there way you will also feel the effects .
Autos and farm tractors will be the next target we have all ready seen the EPA step in more and more .
Beer wine and such will remain because if you are half intoxicated you are just a happy camper .
A lie is now the truth and the more they lie the more it becomes acceptable and believable .
And when they come for your weapons remember it will only effect the legal gun owners , criminals will still have theirs and so will the controllers .
To see things as they are not as they want you to see them .. With the stroke of a pen all you rights and freedom can end ...
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Re: A sad day for this nation.

Postby Dirk Williams » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:25 am

Well said.

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