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Economic collapse

Postby Mitehre » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:13 pm

I think it's time to update the time tables. Congress has 7 more days to come up with a plan for the fiscal cliff. If nothing happens, my federal taxes are going up by $200 a month! That, along with all the other middle class tax payers, will certainly push us back into a recession. Only this time, I don't think any $900 billion dollar stimulus will be enough to stop the landslide. I see us going into a recession, congress authorizing more debt and more money to be printed and thus deflating the dollar even more. I always thought we'd have 10-15 years until collapse, but now with the cliff and debt ceiling being hit right behind it, I don't think we have that much time. I'd love to hear other's opinions on this.
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby USMCWife2010 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:19 pm

My husband has been unemployed for half a year, we are definitely lower middle class, but with the new Obamacare taxes, and FICA taxes going up, we will probably owe taxes this spring. The higher our national debt mounts up, the more imminent a collapse appears to be. I just don't see how the system can keep sustaining itself.
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby Das Sheep » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:22 pm

I imagine that they will go over the cliff, and use public anger (and lack of understanding) to force a deal on the republicans. They may also tie in other issues, like gun control.

But is the collapse coming soon? Maybe. Maybe not. It might be years on, or just months. Our economy is safe so long as our trading partners still take green backs and their economies don't collapse.
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby anita » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:14 pm

Who knows? It certainly feels close, and we're moving faster toward collapse than I expected, but who knows what is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back and makes everything tumble like a house of cards.

Edited to say: Cliche alert!
In honor of RebNavy: "Then call us Rebels if you will, we glory in the name, for bending under unjust laws and swearing faith to an unjust cause, we count as greater shame". Richmond Daily Dispatch May 12 1862

Semper Fi, Sic Semper Tyrannis, Remember The Alamo, and Aide'toi et Dieu T'aidera!
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby gypsy276 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:38 pm

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Re: Economic collapse

Postby Drakenstead1 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:08 pm

There are a LOT of families out there who are "above the poverty level" who are just sneaking by. An extra $200 a month out of the breadwinner's paychecks will push many of them over the line and be a real breaking point. The "Tax the Rich" rhetoric is smoke & mirrors and is obvious to anyone who can do simple arthmitic. The real place to get more "revenue" is where it already is coming from. That is working folks with families.
Real rich people will do what they always have done using lwayers and loopholes to minimize their hit.

When this hits there's going to be a reaction. How large and how loud that reaction is remains to be seen. My OPINION is that this hit will be a real tipping point that drives a cascade leading to revolutionary action. That's not to say "revolution" only in a positive way. Remember that a revolution can produce a Stalin as well as a Washington.
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby Lilredmg » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:12 pm

My step dad is 90 years old. A very, very smart man. He gives this country about two years. I think I'll listen to him. He just bought a handgun. His hand shakes so bad at target practice. I told him, "Bill, all you need to do is point that thing and you'll scare the pants off any robber." He says, "Good!! It'll save me a bullet!" LOL Amazing man...
Matthew 25:42 "for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave me no drink."

Matthew 25:45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me."
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby RayMac1963 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:16 pm

Mitehre wrote:Only this time, I don't think any $900 billion dollar stimulus will be enough to stop the landslide.



Not if it goes to banks, big business, and corp bailouts THAT'S for damn sure. IT a shame they even call that trash "stimulus" considering how much actually might have got to the man on the street.
I can't help but think God is up there right now saying "its time to shake the ol' Etch-A-Sketch and restart humanity again".



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Re: Economic collapse

Postby Das Sheep » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:09 pm

RayMac1963 wrote:
Mitehre wrote:Only this time, I don't think any $900 billion dollar stimulus will be enough to stop the landslide.



Not if it goes to banks, big business, and corp bailouts THAT'S for damn sure. IT a shame they even call that trash "stimulus" considering how much actually might have got to the man on the street.


None of it did. The bailout was only to help the rich. Basically banks made a lot of bad loans that were high risk, and they collapsed, and the banks and their investors lost a lot of money, so the gov gave them that money back.
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby anita » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:16 pm

Das Sheep wrote:
RayMac1963 wrote:
Mitehre wrote:Only this time, I don't think any $900 billion dollar stimulus will be enough to stop the landslide.



Not if it goes to banks, big business, and corp bailouts THAT'S for damn sure. IT a shame they even call that trash "stimulus" considering how much actually might have got to the man on the street.


None of it did. The bailout was only to help the rich. Basically banks made a lot of bad loans that were high risk, and they collapsed, and the banks and their investors lost a lot of money, so the gov gave them that money back.


It also helped the Obama cronies. It went to the solar and wind companies whose major investors were major Obama bundlers. It went to GM, which doled it out to the unions rather than their bond investors (you might think those are rich people, but a lot are held by pension funds.)
In honor of RebNavy: "Then call us Rebels if you will, we glory in the name, for bending under unjust laws and swearing faith to an unjust cause, we count as greater shame". Richmond Daily Dispatch May 12 1862

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Re: Economic collapse

Postby daaswampman » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:39 pm

I think there will be some kind of deal, before or after the deadline makes little difference. Either way it misses the point that spending must be cut and the debt paid down. It will not happen as the truth will not get you elected. We are well past the point of no return and the worldwide economy will break down. What comes out of it is anybody's guess. I doubt that it will be pretty. Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby terrapin » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:11 pm


Swamp,
You keep sayin what I'm thinkin.
before I even get it thunk out...
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby Mitehre » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:32 pm

When it does happen, it will be quick. It's not like people aren't aware of the problem or don't know it's coming, it's that the cure is just as painful as the end result so no one does anything about it. The time will come when the government will borrow 50%-60% of its annual budget. Investors will demand every higher returns and interest rates to compensate for the ever higher risk. But eventually, the risk will be too high.Every investor, foreign country and capitalist knows it's coming and all are watching very closing looking for the first guy to flintch. Imagine a car full of investors heading for a cliff. The longer they stay in the car, the more money they get. Sooner or later, someone is going to jump out rather than go over. When the happens, all the others will follow very quickly. What will cause it? No one knows. It could be the fiscal cliff, it could be the debt ceiling getting raised again in two months, it could be something in the next few years that acts as the catalyst. Here's what's gonna happen when it does happen, a country or large investor is going to dump their holdings having lost all faith in the dollar. The market will be flooded with T-Bills. Others will see that as the sign and start dumping too. Like a stone in pond, all stocks will start to crash. The safety breakers will kick in and the stock market will shut down. There will be an emergency meeting of congress to try and restore things, but it will be too late. Since everyone knows what's going on, all the foreign markets will begin to crash too. No solution will be found in a day so when the markets re-open the next day, stocks will crash further and again the safety breakers will kick in and close the market. The market will stay closed for a few days while congress does damage control. In the mean time, the few days that all this is going on, there will be a run on the banks as news spreads and panic sets in. Grocery stores, gas stations and malls will be flooded with people trying to buy as much as they can. This is when it gets really bad and we know the outcome after that.
So in my opinion, watch the stock market in T-bills and Bonds. When someone starts dumping U.S. Treasury Bonds, that's the sign.
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby RayMac1963 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:44 am

anita wrote:It also helped the Obama cronies. It went to the solar and wind companies whose major investors were major Obama bundlers. It went to GM, which doled it out to the unions rather than their bond investors (you might think those are rich people, but a lot are held by pension funds.)


Lets be fair. Bush did the first one, so his cronies got some too.
I can't help but think God is up there right now saying "its time to shake the ol' Etch-A-Sketch and restart humanity again".



My Blog---> http://urbanprepperdiary.blogspot.com
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Re: Economic collapse

Postby RayMac1963 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:53 am

Mitehre wrote:When it does happen, it will be quick.


I respectfully disagree, I think it will be slowly engulf us. In fact, i think we are in it and most don't even see. This bank bail out crap was one thing, but look at the stock market, there is no reason for it to have run back up so quickly. If the fundamentals were weak before, not much has change but the price. You still are speculating on future stock price increase, not on revenue or future profits. Its all a shell game. But there will be a tipping point, and it will accelerate after that.
I can't help but think God is up there right now saying "its time to shake the ol' Etch-A-Sketch and restart humanity again".



My Blog---> http://urbanprepperdiary.blogspot.com
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