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Las Vegas attack

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Las Vegas attack

Postby air commando » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:47 am

For those of you just waking up there was a domestic terrorist attack in Las Vegas with 50 killed so far and over 400 injured from the latest numbers I just saw.

Largest mass shooting in US history now. It sounded like he had an automatic weapon but I'm curious if it could've been a bump stock?
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Photon Guy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:04 am

air commando wrote:For those of you just waking up there was a domestic terrorist attack in Las Vegas with 50 killed so far and over 400 injured from the latest numbers I just saw.

Largest mass shooting in US history now. It sounded like he had an automatic weapon but I'm curious if it could've been a bump stock?


Yes I just saw it on the news. I also believe he had a fully automatic weapon, that is what it sounds like in the report. As of right now the report didn't say anything about whether or not he obtained the guns legally but if he used a full automatic I doubt he had obtained it legally since to do so would've meant he needed a class III firearms permit and those are hard to get and they only allow you to get full automatics that were manufactured before 1986. My condolences to all the victims and their families. The anti gun crowd will no doubt go wild.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Mollypup » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:00 am

Due to my schedule, I caught this as my facebook friends heard it come over the scanner in the wee hours of the morning. Police suspected multiple shooters as fire was coming from various floors of the Mandalay Bay Resort, shooting down at police as well as the crowd.

I must say, I wasn't surprised to find the shooter "died at his own hand" this morning. Am I the only one to notice that lately in such type attacks the shooter never survives to trial??

Ten weapons found in his room. How many elsewhere in the hotel? (witnesses during this were reporting shots from different floors) How much ammo to go with those guns? A lot as this lasted quite a while, this wasn't just a few minutes of shooting. At the very least semi-automatic weapons, but sounds fully automatic (not that I'm an expert)......so illegal guns (costly, not as easy to get hold of)

This was a planned attack. Planned and executed with precision to do the most damage possible in a short amount of time. This is not some ol' guy that "just freaked" or had his cheese slide off his cracker. It took time, much effort, planning, money to carry out. It was like shooting fish in a barrel, literally. Concert goers didn't even realize it was gunfire for several long minutes until they started seeing people drop.

This was not done in a fit of fury or even insanity. One has to have their wits about them to pull such a thing off.

Of course, now he's dead, so we'll never truly know his reasons for mass slaughter. While he may not be connected with an international terror group, it's still terrorism, there is still a motive behind his actions.

The live twitter feed of the shooting in progress the person recording it realized something was wrong because "people were lying down", it was taken from another building. This is what I saw at 3 ish this morning when I went hunting for facts after a friend posted what they'd heard on the police scanner.

I do find it interesting that this man was in multiple places at the same time shooting, yet it is reported he is the only shooter. This 60 something man must've really been in shape to manage that, it's not a small building by any means. (this was reported by police as well as eye witnesses on scene during the shooting) I do see that there are "persons of interests" being sought, although they do not state why. One I believe is his girlfriend.

I find this extremely odd. Family reports no history of mental illness. No obvious reason for such a detailed planned & executed attack. (terror group) Not adding up. And I'm no conspiracy freak by any means. It simply doesn't add up. One doesn't just wake up & decide one day to open fire on a crowd of 40,000 people for no reason.

It will be interesting to see what "facts" come out of this investigation of yet another dead shooter. And yet again, libs are screaming for gun control, like that would've stopped him.

My prayers are with the victims & their families.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Mollypup » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:07 am

Note: Just stumbled across something that is stating ISIS is claiming responsibility for this attack. According to them, Paddock converted months ago. Reported by the Associated Press. Hmm. Possible. No evidence has been found to confirm these claims yet. However, sort of odd they'd claim responsibility if he didn't. We've had other incidences in which they didn't.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Blondie » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:53 am

I found it interesting this guy was mid 60's. Doesnt fit the profile of a typical active shooter.

Initial report say he was "known to law enforcement" but had no serious criminal history. I read that as = nut case.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Hiker72 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:10 am

Mollypup wrote:Note: Just stumbled across something that is stating ISIS is claiming responsibility for this attack. According to them, Paddock converted months ago. Reported by the Associated Press. Hmm. Possible. No evidence has been found to confirm these claims yet. However, sort of odd they'd claim responsibility if he didn't. We've had other incidences in which they didn't.



I saw a report either of him or his female roommate visited a middle eastern country. That was early this morning, well before ISIS claimed responsibility.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby handyman777 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:44 am

Dose "Manchurian Candidate" come to mind ? ? ?

Hillary sure jumped on this one quick and blames the NRA.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Mollypup » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:48 am

Blondie wrote:I found it interesting this guy was mid 60's. Doesnt fit the profile of a typical active shooter.

Initial report say he was "known to law enforcement" but had no serious criminal history. I read that as = nut case.


Not necessarily. I would imagine if that were the case they wouldn't hesitate to make it known since it would put doubt on the terrorist angle. There could be other reasons. Police could've been tipped off this guy was buying illegal weapons or vast amounts of ammo but didn't have enough evidence to do anything about it. Could be he'd get drunk & disorderly in the casinos for that matter.

Mid 60s is unusual though. By that stage in life one is usually past irrational impulsive behavior, and if not, others most certainly are fully aware of it.

I'd expect someone in their 60s to not be especially vulnerable to muslim indoctrination either as a young person is. There are exceptions though, always. Just because you're older doesn't necessarily mean you can't be vulnerable to such things.

I find it really unusual that ISIS is claiming responsibility. We've had other shootings ect they could've made similar claims & didn't. Very odd.

Since I got in on this while it was happening I'm more than a bit disturbed that both police & many eye witnesses were reporting shooters on both the 32nd & 10th floors. Shooter on the 10th floor was targeting police (most likely to keep them at bay), shooter on 32nd floor targeted the crowd. This was occurring at the same time. There is more than enough distance between the two floors for them not to be mistaken. The more witnesses state the same thing, the more accurate the report. Now, however, only 1 shooter on the 32nd floor is being reported. Seems all those witnesses (including trained police) were mistaken. No. So there is a high chance the 2nd shooter (or more) managed to escape. Are police searching for them? Who knows? It would be difficult to explain....oh hey, we found this other shooter, after you've stated to the public the lone shooter is dead & that all accounts of multiple shooters are false. So probably not.

By the way, I'd imagine police can accurately determine where shots being fired at them are coming from.

Apparently Paddock is so skilled he can shoot from two floors at the same time in two different directions. Amazing. (actually a 3rd floor was mentioned but I don't recall which one & more focus on the 10th & 32nd as the minutes ticked by)

What stands out to me most?

9/11 horrified the nation, but it literally pulled people together. Politics ect was put aside for quite some time to unify against our attacker. Patriotism soared. We were Americans, first & foremost.

Vegas has horrified a nation. If social media is any indication (and it is, which is why I keep it & the hundreds upon hundreds of "friends" I have on it) this is not happening. People are already bickering & at each other's throats. You've got everything from "look what that old white guy did" to "gun control" nuts & it goes to hell from there.

It shows how utterly divided we've become as a nation, how serious it really is. The terrorist attack didn't scare me. (I avoid crowds anyway) But the degree in which we've allowed ourselves to become divided most certainly does scare me.

It's not "us" as a nation anymore. It's us vs them, no matter what. :shakeno:

Our enemies might as well attack, we'll be too busy fighting among ourselves to fight back. omg
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby little_nova57 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:51 am

Sad and shocking that such an event has occurred. Prayers to all involved.
I wish for your collective input. Posted below is one of many videos already posted. My question is..where is all the muzzle flash as the shooter is firing?
I am perplexed that no flash is seen. Also below that is a photo of the Hotel with 2 windows that were "supposedly" the origins of shots fired. Am still having a time wrapping my head all around this.
https://youtu.be/bQYv0v_QPC0?t=31
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_ ... 648094.jpg
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Photon Guy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:54 pm

Blondie wrote:I found it interesting this guy was mid 60's. Doesnt fit the profile of a typical active shooter.

Initial report say he was "known to law enforcement" but had no serious criminal history. I read that as = nut case.


I don't think age really has much to do with whether or not somebody is an active shooter. Active shooters come in all ages. I will say that gender does seem to make a difference though. Active shooters, as I've noticed tend to be men.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby ReadyMom » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:11 pm

Gunman’s ‘psychopathic’ dad was bank robber, FBI most wanted
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/la ... ption.html

Las Vegas shooter's father, 'Bingo Bruce,' lived colorful life of crime and deception

The father of the gunman behind the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history robbed a string of banks in Arizona, escaped prison in Texas and tried to start a new life as the manager of a bingo parlor in Oregon, according to historical newspaper articles.

Eric, the brother of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 50 people from his hotel room at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino late Sunday, told the Orlando Sentinel that their father was Benjamin Hoskins Paddock.

The elder Paddock, born in Wisconsin in 1926, had a host of other fake names and nicknames, including “Big Daddy” and “Old Baldy," and was on the FBI’s Top Ten Most Wanted list from 1969 to 1977.

Paddock was indicted in 1960 on three counts of robbing Phoenix branches of Valley National Bank, the Arizona Republic reported on Oct. 6 that year. He was accused of stealing close to $25,000 and was caught in the summer of 1960 by FBI agents in Las Vegas.

"The FBI said Paddock tried to resist arrest and attempted to run down an agent with his car," read a July 28, 1960, report from the Tuscon Daily Citizen.

The 6-foot-4, 245-pound Paddock was convicted and slapped with a 20-year prison sentence, but the lengthy jail term was cut short when he busted out of a federal prison in Texas in 1969, the Eugene Register-Guard reported.

An escaped federal prisoner poster issued by the FBI at the time said Paddock was “diagnosed as psychopathic” and “reportedly has suicidal tendencies and should be considered armed and dangerous.”

About six months after the escape, Paddock was involved in an armed robbery at a bank in San Francisco and in September 1978, he was awaiting trial related to charges from that incident, according to the Oregon newspaper.

Paddock, described by the FBI as being an “avid bridge player,” had managed to live a secret life centered on another game --bingo -- as a parlor manager in Springfield, Ore.

The FBI said Paddock lived for years in the Eugene-Springfield area under the alias of Bruce Werner Ericksen and managed to stay one step ahead of law enforcement by constantly changing his appearance and avoiding contact with police, which may have resulted in fingerprinting, the Eugene Register-Guard reported.

The man dubbed by the newspaper as “Bingo Bruce” appeared to have run out of luck in 1978 when he was arrested, but the feds paroled him and he was back in the number-calling game just a year later.

“He was a nice guy, and helped a lot of people financially and did one hell of a lot for the kids,” former Junction City Mayor Chuck Ivey, who was on the parole board, told the newspaper.

“All that stuff is old news,” Ivey said when he asked about Paddock’s past.

In 1987, the gig finally ended when the Oregon Attorney General’s Office filed seven racketeering charges against Paddock related to his bingo operation. On top of that, he was charged with rolling back car odometers.

Paddock settled the racketeering charges for $623,000 and pleaded no contest to the odometer case, while simultaneously claiming he had cancer.

Among his other life claims: being an auto crew racing chief, Chicago Bears football player and survivor of a World War II mine sweeper sinking, according to the Eugene Register-Guard.

When the final verdict in Paddock’s legal saga came in, and Circuit Judge George Woodrich decided to let him off with a $100,000 fine and no jail time.

“He could be conning everybody, but this is an economic crime and he’s an old man,” the newspaper quoted Woodrich as saying. “My view is let him go… and good riddance.”

Paddock then went back to the Lone Star state and lived there until his death in 1998. Laurel Paulson, a woman he met while living in Oregon, told the Eugene Register-Guard that he got by on a VA pension and helped her run a machine shop.

“He was a man that people either loved or hated,” she said. “He always said he was a dinosaur.”
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby ajax727 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:05 pm

First prayers for all that died and those that were wounded and hurt .
This act was well planned out and I assume there was only one shooter but in a photo there was two windows out on the same floor and quite a distance apart that were knocked out .? Hopefully the facts will be released and we will have most of the answers to the question of the two windows being knocked out .
All the pieces just don't fit or to me they don't , his age , his back ground , the method of attack , along with the two windows .
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Photon Guy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:02 am

As of now the death toll has risen to 59 with over 520 people injured. I hope and pray for all of the injured to pull through. While I certainly believe in gun rights and I don't believe in tightening gun laws, we need to take actions of some sort to prevent such atrocities in the future.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby Straydog » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm

Photon Guy wrote:As of now the death toll has risen to 59 with over 520 people injured. I hope and pray for all of the injured to pull through. While I certainly believe in gun rights and I don't believe in tightening gun laws, we need to take actions of some sort to prevent such atrocities in the future.

Baring further details the mans father was a criminal and nut. Was the shooter genetically predisposed to commit this act or is there more to the story? I noticed hitlery didn't waste a moment blaming firearms as are others. It has nothing to do with the tool. It has everything to do with mental health. Not sure what the answers are.
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Re: Las Vegas attack

Postby NJMike » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:17 pm

First, my thoughts and prayers to all affected by this. I hope none of our friends here on APN were affected directly. This is very sad. I was looking at an initial list of the victims and their short life stories and felt and still feel horrible beyond words.

Some comments on what's been discussed here and a few additional thoughts:

1) On the two windows, it's been reported that the shooter had booked a suite. Many hotels have corner room or hall end suites with windows in 2 or more directions. A google images search of "Mandalay Bay hotel rooms" has several views that could be of such a room type. Here's a hall map of a different floor:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPho ... evada.html

2) I've read that it took over an hour for the Police/SWAT to get to the shooter in his room. FNC reported 72 minutes from the first 911 call. It sounds like a long time, but includes communications/arrival/locating/safe approach/room breach. Given that long time, and even if it were in reality half the time or shorter, the shooter would have had ample opportunity to switch between two firing positions within the same suite, perhaps even several times, and more so if the path was cleared by moving furniture and positions pre-set with weaponry and extra magazines.

3) Rationale/Motive? Who knows at this point. We can't rule out that this guy, regardless of background, was influenced by the early stages of dementia, Alzheimer's, or otherwise developed an undiagnosed paranoid and psychopathic personality that was triggered by something innocuous to the rest of us.

4) Regardless of motive, I'd have preferred the government label this a terror attack from the onset, and prioritize getting the shooter's GF in custody for questioning ASAP, even if she had fled the country. Something is fishy there.. she may have had prior knowledge and should be investigated fully and prosecuted if that's the case.

5) Those poor people in a tight cluster with limited situational awareness (and perhaps normalcy bias in not quickly recognizing the gun fire) had no chance and it came down to where they were standing. One could generally say the better way to prepare for this is not to be on the X. However, in this case, there wasn't any warning or foreshadowing, and in the absence of that, we still have to live our lives.

6) I have a concert I'm attending on Saturday. I'll be observing for changes in security, and changes in how my fellow concert goers are acting. It will be loud and it may be difficult to discern stage effects from something dire beginning. I generally like to sit or stand near an entrance or wall to be able to get out. However, I also feel an entrance is where an attack could start given the layout of most venues I attend.
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