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Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby getvicious » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:40 pm

I was at a local gun range yesterday and was shocked to walk in around noon and find the store with more than 40(!) customers all buying guns.
Normally I'm all for guns and people owning guns but to see a bunch of office guys joking around about who got a 9mm and who got a 45 and turn around and ask the seller which is a more common caliber and back to a "where do you want to eat" conversation was not comfortable. That wasn't as bad as the seller showing an AR15 to a 50ish guy explaining where the charging handle is and where the safety is and then say, "great, lets get you in line for the paperwork"

To me it all comes down to one question - Do I want a free and open society or a restricted society?

I want a free and open society. I'm willing to accept that not all gun buyers will be experts and some may be complete fools. That's the price of a free and open society.

I also believe in personal responsibility. The folks in the quote above are responsible for their actions, not me.

By the same token I have the right to protect myself and my family as do others.

I have no problem with this. 8)
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby getvicious » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:45 pm

I do have to say though, when I see some people's behavior I just roll my eyes and step away.... :eek: ;)
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby WyoDutch » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:46 pm

The antigun nuts will be doing a full court press against the Second Amendment in the weeks and months to come. Every new gun owner is one more foot soldier in the war.

Congratulate that new gun owner. Invite him/her to go to the range with you.

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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby daaswampman » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:01 pm

BK in KC wrote:The last thing we need is to give the government bureaucrats yet another tool to chip away at our RIGHT, enumerated in the Constitution, to bear arms.
:thumbdown:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


What part of that is unclear to you?

Stop it with the gun snobbery.


Agreed! Give them an inch and they will take your rights away. Swamp
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby ForwardPreppers » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:31 pm

daaswampman wrote:
BK in KC wrote:The last thing we need is to give the government bureaucrats yet another tool to chip away at our RIGHT, enumerated in the Constitution, to bear arms.
:thumbdown:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


What part of that is unclear to you?

Stop it with the gun snobbery.


Agreed! Give them an inch and they will take your rights away. Swamp

Agreed
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:36 pm

I checked on Indianas gun permit. I need an Indiana drivers license, a fingerprint check, background check, pay fees mainly and can get a lifetime concealed weapon permit. Not one mention of gun usage training.

At least in Texas we had to go to an allday course on gun safety and then go to the range the second day and shoot.

After I get my permit here I'm going to a shooting range and take multiple guns and get familiar with them. I can't believe they don't have training.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:36 pm

I checked on Indianas gun permit. I need an Indiana drivers license, a fingerprint check, background check, pay fees mainly and can get a lifetime concealed weapon permit. Not one mention of gun usage training.

At least in Texas we had to go to an allday course on gun safety and then go to the range the second day and shoot.

After I get my permit here I'm going to a shooting range and take multiple guns and get familiar with them. I can't believe they don't have training.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby Spanish Lizard » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:46 pm

I just had the same experience in the two local gun stores here... They were TOTALLY SWAMPED with people. Phones ringing off the hook, customers waiting 3 deep just to place an order at almost every counter. I heard one sales person on the phone say their distributors websites crashed.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby KC-2012 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:48 pm

USMCWife2010 wrote:
RVAprepper2319 wrote:It's such a tough subject, because you have public safety and private rights at a crossroads. Do you require everyone to register for a safety course, thus putting their names in a data base (you know they would make one)? Or do you let people have the choice to take one or not? Personally I'm in the choice crowd, but I see difficulty in requiring gun owners to do anything safety wise. SHOULD evey gun owner have a safe and have their guns locked up? I know I do. But you can't simply force people to do everything one way.

There should be personal responsibility to take care of your firearms. I just don't see a way to do that without over-reaching government regulation. Sometimes I think you have to hope people get the hint and take some responsibility. I know...asking alot. Either way its a very tough call.


Agreed. It's as tough a call as deciding whether or not someone (individual, institution or otherwise) has the power to detain a mentally ill person against their will. Our government and their obliging sheeple want to fix life's problems with the band-aid of tougher government regulation or stricter laws, but at best that would treat only the symptom (and in my humble opinion would not even fix the symptom). The actual problem is our ignorance, lack of self control, and feelings of entitlement which pervade us as a society. Until we take responsibility for our individual selves, until we take responsibility for raising our children to be law-abiding, morally-upright citizens, until we stop enabling the lazy to remain lazy, and until we realize that evil is evil and some evil people can not be "treated" with psychiatric help or an indefinite prison sentence (waste of taxpayer money), then we are going to keep having these problems. Ban ARs. Ban all guns. We'll still have criminals - armed or not - because the problem is that our society is morally corrupt.

[/soapbox rant]




AMEN! :thumbup:
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby namwal » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:01 pm

BK in KC wrote:The last thing we need is to give the government bureaucrats yet another tool to chip away at our RIGHT, enumerated in the Constitution, to bear arms.
:thumbdown:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


What part of that is unclear to you?

Stop it with the gun snobbery.


:thumbup: + karma for you sir!
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby LackyPrepper1 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:11 pm

We're getting a little off topic, but I think that it would be useful to remind everyone of what makes a right different from a privilege. A privilege is bestowed upon one by another, whereas a right is that which one lays claim to by virtue of his very being. A right does not require permission.

That being said, we live in a world where our rights are accosted, limited, or suppressed on a daily basis. As children we are taught about the ideals of democracy, the constitution, and our justice system. As we grow, some of us awaken to the violence that our government and citizenry commit against these ideals. Some see it but willfully ignore it. Still others remain blind to it their entire lives. The latter two we call the "sheep."

The sheep perceive life through the eyes of a child, trusting those who can't be trusted because they were taught to as children. They see the government limiting the exercise of certain acts and either consciously or subconsciously associate them with privilege, rather than right. The result is a person who confuses "driving a car" with "owning a gun" and tries to equate the two. They ask, "If you have to pass a test to drive, why shouldn't you have to receive training to own a gun?" Even worse, they ask, "Why does anyone need an assault rifle?" The answer is irrelevant, because one does not have to justify a right. That's what makes it a right.

Unfortunately, the old saying that gun owners are their own worst enemies is true. Until you acknowledge that gun ownership is a right, and not a privilege that you exercise at the pleasure of the government under the conditions that they set forth, you are the very same sheep that we ridicule on a regular basis.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby dogboy » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:45 pm

While I abhor the idea of limiting the access of law abiding people to the tools necessary to protect themselves, there is a way to ensure that people get weapon-specific training when buying an AR-15 (or whatever). Pass a law saying that gun sellers can not be held liable for the misuse of the weapons they sell if the purchaser presents evidence of the appropriate training, but without evidence of training the seller can be held liable for the misuse of the weapons they sold. No one wants responsiblity for the actions of an idiot, so they will insist on evidence of training.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby BK in KC » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:56 pm

dogboy wrote:While I abhor the idea of limiting the access of law abiding people to the tools necessary to protect themselves, there is a way to ensure that people get weapon-specific training when buying an AR-15 (or whatever). Pass a law saying that gun sellers can not be held liable for the misuse of the weapons they sell if the purchaser presents evidence of the appropriate training, but without evidence of training the seller can be held liable for the misuse of the weapons they sold. No one wants responsiblity for the actions of an idiot, so they will insist on evidence of training.


How is an AR-15 intrinsically any more dangerous than any other rifle in the hands of an inexperienced user? All of the same basic safety rules apply to a single shot .22. In the hands of a devious lawyer (i.e. pretty much all of them) what you propose will lead to so many lawsuits it will put many honest dealers out of business when they decide it's not worth it anymore. Those that remain will end up carrying "malpractice insurance" just like doctors and costs to buy a gun will skyrocket. And I mean all guns, as they will have to spread the costs to all of their customers.

No. If you're an adult and have a legally purchased firearm of any type you (and only you) are responsible for the safe usage and storage of that firearm.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby dogboy » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:02 pm

BK, I agree 100%. Something like that will screw up a lot more than it solves, all because someone wants to force training without actually putting a legal requirement for training.
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Re: Holly Cow! That sheep just got an AR

Postby daaswampman » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:06 pm

It is naive to think training will prevent accidents and misuse of guns. If training prevents accidents and misuse then there should be no car accidents, speeding or DUI's.

It would help, but it is not an end all answer and leaves us open to abuse of excessive requirements. Swamp
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