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maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

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maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby james313 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:46 am

Hi :)

can anyone point me at accurate numbers for the pressure wave produced by a nuke blast of up to 50 megaton at a set distance from ground zero please ( say 0.6 miles )

I want to specify a pressure rating to an engineer who we will use to design our below ground shelter.

yes i did spend hours googling but i get the figure used in Sweden of 3 bar ( 45 PSI ) , i get a local business selling blast valves rated to 7 bar ( 105 PSI ) .

What is the correct number to use if you want to correctly rate the design pressure of the structure , blast door and blast valves used ?

thanks :) :)
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby Illini Warrior » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:26 am

the customer has to provide spec details to the engineer? .... you have the wrong engineer - guy ....

but if you need to do his work the answer would be at SurvivalRing - http://www.survivalring.org/shelters/
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby 3ADScout » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:41 am

This should be able to help you- it is the "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons" which is a DOD publication

https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/effects/
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby james313 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:54 am

Illini Warrior wrote:the customer has to provide spec details to the engineer? .... you have the wrong engineer - guy ....

but if you need to do his work the answer would be at SurvivalRing - http://www.survivalring.org/shelters/


Thank you

Reason I want to do 90% of the design work first is to keep costs down , and also to validate any proposals and recommendations he might throw on paper.

:D
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby Gunns » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:19 am

50 megatons? I bit out there don't you think? No one has 50 megaton nuclear bombs. They tested big ones, by mistake even, but they do not have them in their arsenals.

I believe the Chinese has the largest warheads at present, in their arsenal. Its because their guidance system isn't accurate.
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby Lifelong Survivalist » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:31 am

If you are .6 mile from a surface burst of a 50 Megaton thermonuclear hydrogen bomb you would be practically at ground zero! :eek: What are you thinking?? You would need a shelter with a tunnel into a mountainside similar to the NORAD complex at Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado. Most of the weapons that are in place today that rank in Mega-tonage yield are from 1 to 20 Megatons, depending on what the target is. Target examples: population centers, industrial areas, military bases, missile silos, hydro-electric dams, nuclear power plants, state and national capitals, railroad yards, major airports, major coastal ports. :smartass: You have homework and research to do. Get the DOD publications, visit the DOD website and use a different search engine besides Google. :shakeyes: Go to your local library. Invest some of your own time and effort. Educate yourself first before you hire an engineer. :thumbsup: Get your own knowledge first, then work with an engineer. That will keep your costs down. Check Wikipedia too. Change your key search words and phrases until you find the sites you are seeking that have the knowledge you seek. IMHO, I think you are wasting your time and money both. And be ready to bend over and kiss your A. good-bye. :nuke: :oops: Never mind, you won't have time for that. :-) Lifelong
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby Fullmoon » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 am

If you are that close to the explosion you are toast, if the blast doesn't kill you the heat wave will. Degree of skin burn is a function of weapon size and distance from explosion. The extent of blast is a function of weapon size or explosive power. For a 20 MT bomb the minimum safe distance for survival is 5 miles if you are in a protected area such as a bunker or fallout shelter. That is from an airburst above the target. Approximately 50% of the energy of the explosion is released in the blast. Approximately 35% of the energy of the explosion is released as heat. About 15% of the energy of the explosion results in ionizing radiation - 5% in initial or prompt radiation given off within the first few minutes and 10% in residual radiation given off over an extended period of time. Stress factors generated from a nuclear blast shockwave are a guessing game at best and every engineer will use different specs to design a bunker. The simple fact is that nobody really knows. The only known facts are those of different materials used in construction to protect you from radiation if your shelter is located outside the blast radius. A concrete reinforced bunker with a poured concrete 6" ceiling is best but should be backfilled with a minimum of 3' of earth for protection from radiation. Excavating into a hillside is the best and most economical way to construct this structure, preferably on the backside of the hill away from the blast area. Blast walls should be built in front of the doors and backfilled with earth.
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby Photon Guy » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:13 pm

Gunns wrote:50 megatons? I bit out there don't you think? No one has 50 megaton nuclear bombs. They tested big ones, by mistake even, but they do not have them in their arsenals.

I believe the Chinese has the largest warheads at present, in their arsenal. Its because their guidance system isn't accurate.


Russia had 100 Megaton bombs during the cold war. The biggest bomb ever tested was by Russia, the Tsar bomb and it was a 50 megaton bomb. Supposedly Russia disposed of much of their bombs at the end of the cold war but who knows what they've still got.
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby Gunns » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:11 pm

Photon Guy wrote:
Gunns wrote:50 megatons? I bit out there don't you think? No one has 50 megaton nuclear bombs. They tested big ones, by mistake even, but they do not have them in their arsenals.

I believe the Chinese has the largest warheads at present, in their arsenal. Its because their guidance system isn't accurate.


Russia had 100 Megaton bombs during the cold war. The biggest bomb ever tested was by Russia, the Tsar bomb and it was a 50 megaton bomb. Supposedly Russia disposed of much of their bombs at the end of the cold war but who knows what they've still got.



We know what they got. For decades we helped them inventory, secure and destroy their arsenal. I remember watching a documentary show when we sent some people from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory to help the Russians with calibrating their decades old equipment so they could begin the inventory process. The Russian scientist turned to the American and stated flatly that they could not get their equipment to work and it was needed just to open the bunkers doors.

The American scientist asked politely if he could give it a try. The Russians said please try while smirking. The American opened his briefcase, took out his laptop and cables, opened the cabinets where the Russian equipment was, disconnected and connected his laptop and in about 60 seconds looked at the Russian and said. "Works now". The Russians were flabbergasted and asked flat out how they knew to do that which the did to gain access. The American said "Sorry but you have no nuclear secrets that we have not broken into". The Russians nearly died laughing with the Americans.

The largest nuclear weapons that are deliverable are 5 megatons and they are all Chinese. The Russians and Americans have long since decommissioned their big weapons. No need when you can drop your bomb into a 50 gallon drum from across the planet.

I wish I could find that show it was very interesting.
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby leangenes » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:03 pm

What's the absolute best way to avoid being killed in a nuclear blast? :?



:whistling:







:whistling:







:yawn:







:shifty:






Don't be where there is likely to be a nuclear blast. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :smartass:
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby james313 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:43 pm

Thanks.

The posts so far show that I first need to establish what the maximum deliverable device IS.

Russia had 50 megaton , others say 5 megaton is maximum deliverable.

I can understand the rationale in using smaller warheads , they would have a faster cruising speed and longer range.

I want to do this once and do it right . By the book.

So more research to do :D

Lifelong Survivalist wrote:If you are .6 mile from a surface burst of a 50 Megaton thermonuclear hydrogen bomb you would be practically at ground zero! :eek: What are you thinking?? You would need a shelter with a tunnel into a mountainside similar to the NORAD complex at Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado. Most of the weapons that are in place today that rank in Mega-tonage yield are from 1 to 20 Megatons, depending on what the target is. Target examples: population centers, industrial areas, military bases, missile silos, hydro-electric dams, nuclear power plants, state and national capitals, railroad yards, major airports, major coastal ports. :smartass: You have homework and research to do. Get the DOD publications, visit the DOD website and use a different search engine besides Google. :shakeyes: Go to your local library. Invest some of your own time and effort. Educate yourself first before you hire an engineer. :thumbsup: Get your own knowledge first, then work with an engineer. That will keep your costs down. Check Wikipedia too. Change your key search words and phrases until you find the sites you are seeking that have the knowledge you seek. IMHO, I think you are wasting your time and money both. And be ready to bend over and kiss your A. good-bye. :nuke: :oops: Never mind, you won't have time for that. :-) Lifelong
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby james313 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:55 pm

It's our intention to have 4 feet of soil on top of the concrete bunker , labyrinth entrance corridor , blast door and blast valves all rated to ..... Whatever the correct figure is .

If the entire structure complete with blast valves is rated to exceed that maximum blast and reactive pressure wave , and we have NBC air filtration then we should be 100% safe .... So we can walk out after 2-4 weeks to see if there is anything left to inhabit.

We can't move our location so we have to adapt in it.


Fullmoon wrote:If you are that close to the explosion you are toast, if the blast doesn't kill you the heat wave will. Degree of skin burn is a function of weapon size and distance from explosion. The extent of blast is a function of weapon size or explosive power. For a 20 MT bomb the minimum safe distance for survival is 5 miles if you are in a protected area such as a bunker or fallout shelter. That is from an airburst above the target. Approximately 50% of the energy of the explosion is released in the blast. Approximately 35% of the energy of the explosion is released as heat. About 15% of the energy of the explosion results in ionizing radiation - 5% in initial or prompt radiation given off within the first few minutes and 10% in residual radiation given off over an extended period of time. Stress factors generated from a nuclear blast shockwave are a guessing game at best and every engineer will use different specs to design a bunker. The simple fact is that nobody really knows. The only known facts are those of different materials used in construction to protect you from radiation if your shelter is located outside the blast radius. A concrete reinforced bunker with a poured concrete 6" ceiling is best but should be backfilled with a minimum of 3' of earth for protection from radiation. Excavating into a hillside is the best and most economical way to construct this structure, preferably on the backside of the hill away from the blast area. Blast walls should be built in front of the doors and backfilled with earth.
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby orangetom1999 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:46 pm

James,

If you look at certain photos released of how Cheyenne Mountain is built, you will notice that many of the critical structures are on blast mounts...they are floating structures. This means that any electricity, sanitation, water,,,air ventellation ducts are on expanding/flexible joints.
This is also similar to how a sound mount is made for a submarine. It allows the structure to move and take or absorb movement...even sound if made correctly. I have seen videos on what happens to a submarine diesel generator under heavy depth charge...when hard mounted verses shock mounting...very very impressive. Once properly shock mounted the diesel generator can survive the depth charge.

Just something to think about James.

Also what many are saying such as Gunns is correct...particularly about accuracy. There is not much need for big bombs anymore now that the accuracy is that good.

Even conventional munitions have come down in size since the first gulf war...they no longer need many big conventional bombs with such accuracy possible today.

We are no longer talking about getting a hit close to a building but selecting the window into which you want the charge to go.

There are some systems where the yield of the nuclear device can be dialed or adjusted up or down to suit the job but overall ...large megaton warheads are no longer needed. The reason you had large warheads was because the accuracy of the delivery systems was not good in those days.

Much of that stuff is used today to keep people politically scared. I am not saying not to be concerned ...but just saying what has happened over the years with the newer state of the art.

LOL LOL LOL....Gunns..thanks for the story...very telling...and enjoyable.

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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby contrarian » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:45 pm

I worry about a lot of things. I also lived within sight of Cheyenne Mountain for many years. This day and age, nuclear war is very low on my worry about list.
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Re: maximum blast pressure wave from nukes

Postby TRex2 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:37 pm

james313 wrote:Hi :)
can anyone point me at accurate numbers for the pressure wave produced by a nuke blast of up to 50 megaton at a set distance from ground zero please ( say 0.6 miles )

There is some information out there about blast overpressures,
but my first thought when I saw this was:
You are going to need a bunker, about a mile underground,
and shielded by about another mile of reinforced concrete.

There is some information on the Net about this. A couple
of youtube videos mention the Castle Bravo test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd1IFjBNNVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhaDRSJS1dE
They are only about 15 minutes total.
And I actually wouldn't call the last five minutes useful.
Note that one of them mentions a crater about a mile wide.

Someone said the best way to survive it would be:
be somewhere else! I concur!

Along those lines, I have a more practical question,
which I will ask in another thread.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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