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Re-Population Question

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Re-Population Question

Postby Tinga » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:08 am

In a recent thread viewtopic.php?f=92&t=28845
The topic of Birth control came up. It got me thinking and I talked with DH over a beer last night about it.
We were both of an agreeing mind when I said " Thank goodness I don't have to worry about that anymore lol, one less thing to prep"

And it got me thinking about re-population...
After having 2 sons with special needs, I decided that my child bearing years were over :clap: I love my 2 sons, but the dice were getting risky to roll
BUT, we were out on the porch and I told my DH that " If the SHTF for whatever reason and re-popluation were critical, to please NOT tell anyone I've had my tubes tied"
He kinda looked at me weird and asked why?

"I wouldn't want anybody to know just in case it could be somehow used against me, you or the kids"


I don't think he'd thought about that before and I figured I'd put the discussion out there to spark some conversation.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Lostfalls » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:54 am

I have thought of this some. In a new world. Women of child bearing age and capable of bearing children would have a higher value than others. In communities they might be more likely to get fed, resources and be protected.

I would hope in communities that have prepped this wouldn't be the case but throughout history - in hard times - women that can't bear children have been viewed a burden, and have been treated poorly and turned out. Your Hubby might be seeing a world where even he would come under scorn if other men knew that you could not produce children and yet he was protecting and feeding you anyways. He might even see a community forcing him to take a second wife since you are not capable of have kids. Unhappy thoughts - I know, my imagination just took off on me. I hope none of us are ever in that situation..... I am hoping that prepping will prevent things like that.

In a world with a severely diminished human population like that, it WOULD be important that every woman of child bearing age be pregnant. Despite possible difficulties and lack of medical care. With this in mind I have set aside a small amount of baby preps - cause you never know. Could be needed - could be accident, could be on purpose needed or not! :-)
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby spacecase0 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:06 pm

I am all for repopulating,
I am currently looking for someone to do that with,
but almost every women I talk to does not ever want kids.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Tinga » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:43 pm

Exactly LostFalls. I don't think Dh had thought about it till we were chatting on the porch.

spacecase0- I worked with a lady once that didn't want kids. I thought her weird at the time, even though I firmly stated when I was 13 I was *NOT* having children. Some people never feel the need to have kids, myself included.
A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water.
-Eleanor Roosevelt
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby airborne-fatty » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:01 pm

I would be willing to do my part. :D
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Ben Franklin

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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Lostfalls » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:12 pm

You guys are cracking me up - OF COURSE you would be!

Well here I am with a Hubby who doesn't want kids but I do - so I also think having kids post SHTF would be worth the risk. Leaving this world with someone who carries your good values, and knowledge into the future would be worth it I think.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby PeachMan » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:14 pm

We're already doing our part... 7 kids and counting. Sorry you feel that way, but I don't think anyone is going to somehow hold it against you, outside of a fascist government providing extra benefits to those that are bearing children.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby galnextdoor » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:30 pm

For some reason this topic wierds me out. I don't believe that pregnant ladies or ladies with infants or small children would be looked on favorably in a SHTF or teotwawki situation. They would be looked on poorly for requiring extra resources or not being able to perform as much labor as the rest of the group. I think women who were perceived as carrying their own weight would be looked on more favorably. Older people or disabled people may be in the same boat. Hopefully, they have loved ones to help them. Later on, people may want more children for extra labor but only if you were able to support them. I doubt people would be concerned about repopulating the earth when they are just scraping by. That it likely how it would be for the first generation after a collapse.

Pregnancy would surely mean death for many women. After 23 hours of labor with my first child, life-saving interventions were necessary to deliver my daughter. It was unexpected that there would be complications. I am now blessed with two beautiful children. When I was younger, I also firmly stated that I did not want children, turns out the timing just has to be right. The fellow with seven children has a beautiful family. How wonderful!
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby TaffyJ » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:57 pm

We only have three, but they are NOT a liability! Those boys are a force multiplier. Even at a young age, they care for livestock and help me keep a much larger garden than I would be able to by myself. And when we get coordinated, assembly line style to kill and dress chickens or make firewood or haul dirt, the job gets done fast.
If anyone thinks kids are a liability, they have raised their kids wrong.
Everyone is a liability at the beginning and end of their life, if you want to think in those terms. But I am continually impressed by how much me and the kids can get done.

It sounds really barbaric to judge someone's worth on their reproductive status. I hope no part Of humanity I'm ever involved with will be that way. Older, non-reproductive people are worth their weight in gold for their wisdom, experience, and for baby sitting so the younger folks can accomplish things.

Hmmm... I've got three sons who will need three wives. I think about that just because it seems difficult to find good young ladies who haven't had their moral or intellectual character compromised by today's society. Even without a world-changing event, I despair of them finding good mates. I'm not even 40 yet, and I am thinking about grand babies!
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby PeachMan » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:17 pm

galnextdoor wrote:For some reason this topic wierds me out...


My wife, a tough codger, would have no problem pulling her own weight. Those that will survive the first generation are likely not on meds, healthier than average, and would have no problem carrying a child to full term and giving birth at home. It's how things have been done for thousands of years.

galnextdoor wrote:Pregnancy would surely mean death for many women. After 23 hours of labor with my first child, life-saving interventions were necessary to deliver my daughter.


My wife has done homebirth with a midwife for nearly all of our children, with a couple of minor complications that probably could have been dealt with at home, were we not overly cautious. When we skirt the devices that God gave us, we end up sickly (especially from a genetic perspective from generation to generation) and often can't do what is naturally required, not to mention the medical intervention that often causes more problems than it's worth. Think I'm crazy? Ask yourself why there are more infant and mother deaths in hospitals than with homebirth. A lot of it has to do with holistic diet and healthcare, with less preservatives, chemicals, and medical 'intervention'.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby PeachMan » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:20 pm

TaffyJ wrote:Hmmm... I've got three sons who will need three wives. I think about that just because it seems difficult to find good young ladies who haven't had their moral or intellectual character compromised by today's society. Even without a world-changing event, I despair of them finding good mates. I'm not even 40 yet, and I am thinking about grand babies!


Bring 'em by our way, Taffy. I'm looking for arranged marriages for my four strictly-raised girls. Your sons would have to deal with our family rules of only courting, a full family affair, though.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." -Jesus

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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby pelenaka » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:52 pm

galnextdoor wrote: I doubt people would be concerned about repopulating the earth when they are just scraping by. That it likely how it would be for the first generation after a collapse.

Pregnancy would surely mean death for many women...


Second those thoughts & expirences.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby galnextdoor » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:25 pm

Think I'm crazy? Ask yourself why there are more infant and mother deaths in hospitals than with homebirth. A lot of it has to do with holistic diet and healthcare, with less preservatives, chemicals, and medical 'intervention'.

You are incorrect. There are more total deaths because more people have their children in a hospital. The rate or percentage of deaths is the number you need to compare apples to apples. The neonatal death rate for home births is triple what it is for hospital births:

Journal Reference:
1.Wax et al. Maternal and newborn outcomes in planned home birth vs planned hospital births: a metaanalysis. American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology, 2010; 203 (3) DOI: 10.1016/j.ajog.2010.05.028

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 072730.htm
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... homebirth/
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/724563
http://www.skepticalob.com/2011/02/wa-2 ... eaths.html

That said, I believe it is a woman's right to choose where she has her baby here in America. It does not make a woman less of a woman or mother because she requires medical intervention during delivery (yes, I am defensive). We could got on all day about the rate of interventions and if the are all necessary or not. But the bottom line is that many women and their children are saved by medical interventions every day. Everyones' birth experience does not go as they planned. I mentioned my 23 hour labor (16 hrs natural) because I did give it my all before the doctor told me that my pelvis was too small for the baby to pass through. Her heart rate was distressed and she said if they waited she could have brain damage from the lack of oxygen. They had her out less than 15 minutes later. She is now a healthy 3 year old and she has a healthy little brother too.

I said the topic bothered me not because I am afraid of hard work, but because I think it is awful for a society to determine who live and dies based on use of resources.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Tinga » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:12 pm

I also think it would be deplorable. My situation with our two kiddos would require extra planning. Just because we think it's wrong, doesn't mean it might not happen. THUS, my concern that I expressed to my husband that such should be kept mum... It was merely a conversation that I had with my DH that sparked the topic to discuss. That fact that some of you maybe had thought about it or NOT was my intention. To spark the "What if"? It's a touchy subject among many that may be hard to think about, as it should be.

But I'm glad it's being talked about. Any good conversation about something unknown is always great. And keeping it civil is awesome!!
A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water.
-Eleanor Roosevelt
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Lostfalls » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:28 am

Yeah sorry if I ventured into the uncomfortable - I have a writers mind and my imagination misbehaves. Camping trips can be interesting with me though! Simply playing out "what ifs" in my head. And I agree with Tinga, just because it is disgusting doesn't mean it won't happen. We are civil to each other because we have plenty right now, when we have nothing things will change. In a WORL situation women's rights will only exist for those who fight for them.

Yes in some cultures (like native americans) older women were honored and valued and still played an important role - in other cultures non child bearing women were not so lucky. This is well documented, look up the middle ages, especially following waves of the black death. If you were Royalty it was even worse. Also look up the histories of many eastern cultures. It just isn't pretty. If it has happened once - it can happen again.

I actually just saw a Discovery Channel special on a hypothetical situation where the earth is being attacked shortly after first contact with an alien spieces. We are fighting a losing battle and dying off quickly. All the "experts" agreed that the resistance groups would make it mandatory that any women that could be pregnant must be in order for us to survive. In thier senerio the women were force multipliers.

Nothing wrong with exploring this subject. Also in a post SHTF world sex is not going to stop. Women will still have children, we will see a return to the pioneer days where women dying in child birth is something everyone knows about. Even in the horrible war torn countries of today's world people still have sex and babies - so I will garuentee you, not only will people have time but think about it as well.
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