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Re-Population Question

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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Dagnyy » Mon May 13, 2013 9:14 pm

I don't think many of us, or any of "us," are gonna be looking to intentionally repopulate any time soon after a SHTF event.

But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be events that could well result in pregnancy... either as a function of "oh m'gawd, we made it outta there alive" celebrations of life or, more likely, the taking advantage of a female by a one who is bigger, badder, more sneaky and/or more heavily armed than said female.

Good reason for those of who are capable of becoming pregnant, or who have family members who can, to prep some "morning after" pills. For the rest of us, having a stash of same could be an excellent barter item.

-Dagny
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Anna » Mon May 13, 2013 9:32 pm

I don't know about repopulating on a voluntary basis, but I would imagine that no matter the stresses post-SHTF people are going to be having sex and that will result in pregnancy. Without birth control or the neighborhood abortion clinic, pregnancy will continue to birthing.

My children were born in a hospital. I would not have survived #1 son without medical intervention. Second child was born without problems. My two best friends had their first children without problems but both almost lost both their lives and their babies with their second. All of us were young and healthy. I was not able to produce milk so was unable to nurse either child. Some women just cannot.

I would fully expect childbirth deaths to esculate for both mother and baby without medical care available. A midwife would certainly improve the odds, but how many midwives are there. Not many around here to be sure.

As far as finding a wet nurse post-SHTF, I have to wonder if a mother would have sufficient diet in such a situation to feed her own baby let alone co-nursing someone else's.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby gracebowen » Tue May 14, 2013 8:52 am

Dagnyy wrote:I don't think many of us, or any of "us," are gonna be looking to intentionally repopulate any time soon after a SHTF event.

But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be events that could well result in pregnancy... either as a function of "oh m'gawd, we made it outta there alive" celebrations of life or, more likely, the taking advantage of a female by a one who is bigger, badder, more sneaky and/or more heavily armed than said female.

Good reason for those of who are capable of becoming pregnant, or who have family members who can, to prep some "morning after" pills. For the rest of us, having a stash of same could be an excellent barter item.

-Dagny


I do not believe in abortion and morning after pills in my opinion can cause an abortion. I would rather get my tubes tied.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby TaffyJ » Wed May 15, 2013 12:32 pm

If we expect to return to a simpler world of natural law after a collapse, for example, living on a productive farm instead of getting all our food from a restaurant or grocery store, then we need to open our mind to how that same natural law applies to human interpersonal relations.

Used to, people understood that sex made babies. Period. If you wanted to avoid having lots of children, you avoided having lots of sex. OR you were happy to have lots of children because a bigger family meant more productivity on the farm.

It is a modern concept that we can rely on pharmaceuticals and then have all the sex we want with no natural consequences. You can prep with stashed methods of birth control, which do have expiration dates. Or you can learn natural methods of birth control and child spacing. Or you can have all the sex you currently expect to have and accept the consequences. Or you can have all the sex you want and try to find risky ways to avoid the consequences. Whatever your choice, if there is a SHTF scenario, and we are pushed back to a pre-Walgreens/CVS society, we will have to re-learn the fact that sex=children. Or death.

If you look at human population growth over time, it has been on a steady increase. Pregnancy and birth may be risky, but humanity still managed to grow. More times than not, sex and pregnancy results in life rather than death.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Silas Longshot » Wed May 15, 2013 2:37 pm

Shoot, it wasn't that far back, my Dad's family for instance 'grew their own help' in the form of LOTS of kids (12 brothers and sisters) as farmers in Tennessee. Talk about whoppin' big family reunions! :lol:
Humans have been 'defying' the natural order of the planet for how many hundreds of thousands of years now? And we have billions walking around, still making more babies.
During some massive global tragedy, there will be millions culled out by the circumstances, the way the dinosaurs met their end, some natural disaster meteor strike or any number of scenarios could set that stage. Might take a few thousand years to get back to where we are now, but if a handful of humans survived somewhere on the planet, the cycle would go on.
So, if there were a need for planet wide re-population, it would slowly get done again, I suppose.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby FussyOldHen » Sat May 25, 2013 5:17 pm

Keeping your mouth firmly shut about your child-bearing abilities (or lack) is a good idea; don’t let other people make up their minds about whether you should live or die before you have any idea that the question is even on the table.

I look at the current American population and can visualize people starving and breeding at the same time. Not so smart, eh? How many people are planning on having more children now or after the SHTF and don’t even know where their long-term clean water supply will come from?

And always be aware that men will advocate the production of children because they aren’t the ones producing them. “If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.” (Florynce Kennedy, 1916 – 2000, was refused admission to Columbia U, not because she was Black, but because she was a woman.)

The value of certain types of people will be determined by the people in charge, just as it is today. If you could find a way to turn iron into gold, your continued good health would be assured, no matter your sex, age, looks or anything else.

Re-population tends to be important for a few main reasons: to create armies, to bolster religions, and to create farm workers. But if you can’t feed them, why produce them? Because of the food issues, female offspring may be killed. China did this 20-some years ago to curb population, and you know what happened, right? Well, it will happen again because the idiots in power (nationally or locally) don’t know world history, or even their own. Americans are the worst about this, with 130 years of non-education.

Don’t be so uppity on the greatness of our hospitals. More babies die in their first 24 hours in American hospitals than all the other industrialized nations combined. The European Union countries have a million more births than the U.S., yet only half the deaths. The only ones that surpass us are countries like Somalia, Nigeria and India. And we are sixth from the top in maternal death rates, following Albania, Latvia, Moldova, the Russian Federation and Ukraine. Embarrassing!

Doctoring in the Olde Dayes was a nightmare of ignorance. The cause of “childbed fever” was the failure of doctors to wash their hands, and their godawful “childbirth apron”, which was never washed. The doctor who finally realized this was committed to an insane asylum for his ideas because most doctors thought they were practically gods.

Many doctors are still woefully ignorant. Ask your doctor how many classes he took in nutrition; (Answer: None). They depend on drugs, the newer the better (with a long list of possible side effects), assured by Big Pharma that they will do the job. Ninety percent of the C-sections today are for convenience. Doctors treat illness, they don’t seem to have any interest in preventing them; odd, don’t you think? Have a doctor next door and take away his access to drugs, and then watch what happens. “Here’s a hoe, Doc. Might as well give you something to do.”

When things go south, make sure you have at least a small medical herb garden, then promise a Naturopathic Physician that you will feed him/her with your last grain of wheat if they stay nearby.

Nurse a kid for three years when food is hard to come by? Come on, folks, REALITY CHECK!

And if you think everyone will be operating under today’s standards of hygiene, think again. It’s easy, that’s the only reason it happens now. Well, except for men who use the bathroom and the toilet is still flushing when they walk out of the bathroom/restroom. THAT nasty little habit will proliferate like bacteria on a petri dish. Doctors, too. Know any nurses? Ask them. Did you know you have the right to ask a doctor coming into your hospital or exam room to wash his hands in front of you? If he pitches a fit, run like ‘ell.

“…the first settlers in this country and the earlier years. They were not fit, nor healthy!”

And today? Chance then, choice today. Highly-processed junk food as the main diet. Genetically-modified organisms in 85% of our processed food. Much of our food has been exposed to high levels of herbicide and pesticides. Overall, only a small percentage of our population grows their own food or buys organic. Newborn babies have over 200 foreign chemicals in their bodies. Cancer rates have risen at the same speed as chemical contamination.

“My mother's diabetes? it's her fault.” Probably not. You inherit a predisposition to diabetes, then something in your environment triggers it into activity. Did you know that Type 1 is more common in places with cold climates? Did you know that most of those who later got diabetes had certain auto-antibodies in their blood for years before?

I have been dealing with ADD all my life, despite only taking a test for it seven years ago. Jeez, was that a shock! And here I thought I was normal. Sort of normal, anyway. I could see it in my mother, and she was born in 1916. No junk food then, so what caused it? I was born in 1949, and we were too poor to buy junk or processed foods, what there was of it, which wasn’t much. The symptoms of ADD were first noticed in the early 1900s, so what caused it then???

“As far as an increased mortality rate, there will likely be disease, bullets flying, and rampant starvation. I doubt that giving birth will be the highest risk scenario.”

I would say that that time would be a really, REALLY stupid time to be getting pregnant. In those conditions, there are certain to be orphan children around. If you want kids, take them into your family. Blood matters less than a lot of people are willing to accept. Ego rules.

“Who would want children until things settle down to some type of normal and that could take decades. Don't worry about repopulation as humans have proved over and over that it takes no brains to breed… Humans are proof it takes no brains to breed and there will be no shortage of women with kids. Right now the majority of marriages fail. Swamp”

Finally! A voice for reason!

People wouldn’t get divorced for such stupid reasons if they didn’t get married for such stupid reasons. That applies to non-marriages, too.

“…our knowledge of science will at least decrease the mortality rates compared to the past…”

Only if the knowledge is passed along correctly, and only if it is put to use. Knowledge is useless if people are too stupid or too lazy to put the info to use. It used to be that practically everyone knew how to milk a cow, sew or grow a few vegetables, but the same cannot be said now. Not all that much time has passed since most of the knowledge was lost.

“As long as people want sex, there will be children.”

Let me rephrase that: As long as there are men who want sex, there will be stupid women who will go along and fail to use any available protection. "NO." A short, easy, useful word. A hundred years ago, a man could go through three or four or five wives. “Use them up, wear them out, make them do it, and then find another one when they croak”.

Do women these days KNOW there are other forms of birth control besides pills? That there are physical methods of birth control? Or is the easy way the only way?

Wet nurses: During the pioneer days of the 1850s, when large wagon trains of ‘immigrants’ were heading to CA and OR, a 12-year-old girl found a baby with a dead family (probably cholera). She carried the baby the rest of the way across the country. Several times a day, she would ask one of the nursing mothers in the wagon train(s) if they would nurse the baby. She was never once refused.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Aftermath » Sat May 25, 2013 9:07 pm

FussyOldHen wrote:Keeping your mouth firmly shut about your child-bearing abilities (or lack) is a good idea; don’t let other people make up their minds about whether you should live or die before you have any idea that the question is even on the table.

I look at the current American population and can visualize people starving and breeding at the same time. Not so smart, eh? How many people are planning on having more children now or after the SHTF and don’t even know where their long-term clean water supply will come from?

And always be aware that men will advocate the production of children because they aren’t the ones producing them. “If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.” (Florynce Kennedy, 1916 – 2000, was refused admission to Columbia U, not because she was Black, but because she was a woman.)

The value of certain types of people will be determined by the people in charge, just as it is today. If you could find a way to turn iron into gold, your continued good health would be assured, no matter your sex, age, looks or anything else.

Re-population tends to be important for a few main reasons: to create armies, to bolster religions, and to create farm workers. But if you can’t feed them, why produce them? Because of the food issues, female offspring may be killed. China did this 20-some years ago to curb population, and you know what happened, right? Well, it will happen again because the idiots in power (nationally or locally) don’t know world history, or even their own. Americans are the worst about this, with 130 years of non-education.

Don’t be so uppity on the greatness of our hospitals. More babies die in their first 24 hours in American hospitals than all the other industrialized nations combined. The European Union countries have a million more births than the U.S., yet only half the deaths. The only ones that surpass us are countries like Somalia, Nigeria and India. And we are sixth from the top in maternal death rates, following Albania, Latvia, Moldova, the Russian Federation and Ukraine. Embarrassing!

Doctoring in the Olde Dayes was a nightmare of ignorance. The cause of “childbed fever” was the failure of doctors to wash their hands, and their godawful “childbirth apron”, which was never washed. The doctor who finally realized this was committed to an insane asylum for his ideas because most doctors thought they were practically gods.

Many doctors are still woefully ignorant. Ask your doctor how many classes he took in nutrition; (Answer: None). They depend on drugs, the newer the better (with a long list of possible side effects), assured by Big Pharma that they will do the job. Ninety percent of the C-sections today are for convenience. Doctors treat illness, they don’t seem to have any interest in preventing them; odd, don’t you think? Have a doctor next door and take away his access to drugs, and then watch what happens. “Here’s a hoe, Doc. Might as well give you something to do.”

When things go south, make sure you have at least a small medical herb garden, then promise a Naturopathic Physician that you will feed him/her with your last grain of wheat if they stay nearby.

Nurse a kid for three years when food is hard to come by? Come on, folks, REALITY CHECK!

And if you think everyone will be operating under today’s standards of hygiene, think again. It’s easy, that’s the only reason it happens now. Well, except for men who use the bathroom and the toilet is still flushing when they walk out of the bathroom/restroom. THAT nasty little habit will proliferate like bacteria on a petri dish. Doctors, too. Know any nurses? Ask them. Did you know you have the right to ask a doctor coming into your hospital or exam room to wash his hands in front of you? If he pitches a fit, run like ‘ell.

“…the first settlers in this country and the earlier years. They were not fit, nor healthy!”

And today? Chance then, choice today. Highly-processed junk food as the main diet. Genetically-modified organisms in 85% of our processed food. Much of our food has been exposed to high levels of herbicide and pesticides. Overall, only a small percentage of our population grows their own food or buys organic. Newborn babies have over 200 foreign chemicals in their bodies. Cancer rates have risen at the same speed as chemical contamination.

“My mother's diabetes? it's her fault.” Probably not. You inherit a predisposition to diabetes, then something in your environment triggers it into activity. Did you know that Type 1 is more common in places with cold climates? Did you know that most of those who later got diabetes had certain auto-antibodies in their blood for years before?

I have been dealing with ADD all my life, despite only taking a test for it seven years ago. Jeez, was that a shock! And here I thought I was normal. Sort of normal, anyway. I could see it in my mother, and she was born in 1916. No junk food then, so what caused it? I was born in 1949, and we were too poor to buy junk or processed foods, what there was of it, which wasn’t much. The symptoms of ADD were first noticed in the early 1900s, so what caused it then???

“As far as an increased mortality rate, there will likely be disease, bullets flying, and rampant starvation. I doubt that giving birth will be the highest risk scenario.”

I would say that that time would be a really, REALLY stupid time to be getting pregnant. In those conditions, there are certain to be orphan children around. If you want kids, take them into your family. Blood matters less than a lot of people are willing to accept. Ego rules.

“Who would want children until things settle down to some type of normal and that could take decades. Don't worry about repopulation as humans have proved over and over that it takes no brains to breed… Humans are proof it takes no brains to breed and there will be no shortage of women with kids. Right now the majority of marriages fail. Swamp”

Finally! A voice for reason!

People wouldn’t get divorced for such stupid reasons if they didn’t get married for such stupid reasons. That applies to non-marriages, too.

“…our knowledge of science will at least decrease the mortality rates compared to the past…”

Only if the knowledge is passed along correctly, and only if it is put to use. Knowledge is useless if people are too stupid or too lazy to put the info to use. It used to be that practically everyone knew how to milk a cow, sew or grow a few vegetables, but the same cannot be said now. Not all that much time has passed since most of the knowledge was lost.

“As long as people want sex, there will be children.”

Let me rephrase that: As long as there are men who want sex, there will be stupid women who will go along and fail to use any available protection. "NO." A short, easy, useful word. A hundred years ago, a man could go through three or four or five wives. “Use them up, wear them out, make them do it, and then find another one when they croak”.

Do women these days KNOW there are other forms of birth control besides pills? That there are physical methods of birth control? Or is the easy way the only way?

Wet nurses: During the pioneer days of the 1850s, when large wagon trains of ‘immigrants’ were heading to CA and OR, a 12-year-old girl found a baby with a dead family (probably cholera). She carried the baby the rest of the way across the country. Several times a day, she would ask one of the nursing mothers in the wagon train(s) if they would nurse the baby. She was never once refused.


Very insightful as well as a very good and passionate read. I cant say as I disagree with anything you wrote. My wife read it with me and we discussed the subject at length. We agreed we are glad we had our eight children before anything bad happened that reshaped the world and life as we know it. Now we have 9,5 grandchildren and if the time comes during our lifetimes, we will have an easier time when the farming work comes around.

We also agreed that we wouldn't be open to sharing knowledge about our abilities to have more children (repopulation) when that time came around. Though we would be the ones rescuing orphaned kids. I have no problem telling an adult to go get bent if they demanded we feed them, but children would be another story. The way I see it, children will be the future and if we practice mercy and compassion at their young ages, the Karma philosophy will surely come into play.

Sorry to include everything you posted and thus making this a long post but it was all very well communicated.
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby Dagnyy » Sun May 26, 2013 12:13 pm

I respect your sentiment Grace, but only as far as -your- body goes and only so long as your sentiment doesn't decrease my choices or the choices of others.

However, the fact is the morning-after pill ("Plan B) is NOT an abortifacient. In short, the morning-after pill works:
    By altering the hormonal cycle of the female body, Plan B stops the egg from coming into contact with sperm altogether, either preventing ovulation or trapping sperm on the way. If the egg has already been fertilized, however, the pills have no effect.

    Source = http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi ... -b/266377/
so you can see that without a fertilized egg embedded in the uterine lining there is no pregnancy, thus Plan B doesn't cause a intentional miscarriage aka an abortion.

Plan B is sold as emergency CONTRACEPTION because what it does is no different than what the birth control pill does, specifically:
  1. Plan B prevents ovulation;
  2. Plan B thickens the woman's cervical mucous which helps block the sperm from reaching the egg;
  3. Plan B thins the uterine lining which prevents an egg from implanting.
There -is- an abortion pill (RU-486 aka "miffy" after its chemical name mifepristone and brand name Mifeprex) available in the U.S., but it's not OTC and the drugs involved -will- terminate a pregnancy. Oh, and RU-486 isn't cheap... the cost can run from $350-$650, as compared to a national average of $45 for Plan B.

And, taking this full circle now, post-SHTF I can see at least three reasons for those of child-bearing age to stock some Plan B... if their contraception should fail and they don't want to bring a child into a world where neither mother nor child would be able to eat enough to grow those all important brain cells, if the unprotected sex occurred as a result of rape, or if the pregnancy would put the woman (and other family members) in an untenable vulnerable position where death would be a concern, either medically because she couldn't deliver vaginally, or by being taken out of the hunter/gatherer/protector equation for an undue amount of time.

-Dagny
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Re: Re-Population Question

Postby MrsForest » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:45 am

I would be the scourge of society. LOL I can't have kids nor do I ever want them! In fact the average age of my bug out location is 51. :)
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