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Self-defense without a gun?

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Self-defense without a gun?

Postby FussyOldHen » Sat May 25, 2013 2:00 pm

When conditions deteriorate, what's your plan for defending yourself if you need to do so? Hubby has the gun, and hubby isn't around, and there's a guy coming at you, from the front, from behind, from the side. We'll say that he doesn't have a gun either, so that sort of levels the playing field.

What would you do? He is almost certainly stronger than you, maybe faster than you, meaner than you. So what's your plan if you have to stand and fight, or protect your children?

[I hope that no one here feels like a woman did on another board: she said that if she had a gun, she would empty it as fast as she could into the ceiling or floor, then let the deranged, psychotic killers rape and kill her and her two young daughters.]

You need a plan for something like this BEFORE it happens -- trying to come up with a good idea on the spot isn't going to work.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Aftermath » Sat May 25, 2013 2:11 pm

I provided each of my family members with a 16" expandable baton. They are very portable, legal, and light enough to be handled effectively by even a small framed person. My wife calls hers "The Equalizer". It is capable of being incorporated into self-defensive techniques effectively. The baton is easily capable of shattering hand and arm bones should an attacker make the mistake of reaching for their victim. It is also effective at protecting against stray dogs should they become aggressive (as my wife found out on a walk).

These things are not expensive at all and make a great addition to your non-lethal arsenal.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby dearborn prepper » Sat May 25, 2013 2:40 pm

get a gun, go out today or tomorrow and get a small caliber hand gun .22 revolver or 9mm, open carry for now and then find your closest gun shop, call them and ask if they do concealed carry courses, they usually only cost 100 bucks, there is no excuse for you not to carry, but if you ment you couldnt have a gun then get either bear spray or a can of axe deoderant, bear or pepper spray is longer lasting but axe will blind and it seams to have a more powerfull spray.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby FussyOldHen » Sat May 25, 2013 5:23 pm

I said "no gun" for a reason. Most people are so highly dependent on 'things', but when a bad situation comes up, they usually don't have access to them. What do they intend to do then?

Forget the guns, bear spray, etc.

What will you do, Ladies?
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Gherkin » Sat May 25, 2013 6:09 pm

Self defense class and women's self defense class.

Find yourself a good instructor, not some fly by night operation. Talk to the instructor, watch a class, get recommendations. Complete the course, stay fresh and practice.

The forum is not the place someone can teach you but the class I took with my daughters was great. Teenagers are easily embarrassed and I had a hard time making them go but they did and we completed the first course. I took the second course which was more intense, dealt with hand weapons and group attacks. I was bruised and sore but I made it through.

The self defense class was men and women, some way bigger than me, some way faster than me but you learn how to move, and practice over and over. Everyone had to play the victim and the aggressor. The women's self defense class had no men in it except for the instructor.

Self defense class can make you more alert, more aware of your surroundings. Avoidance is key but knowing how to react to an attack, subdue an attacker long enough to get away, can save your life whether or not TSHTF.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby RayMac1963 » Sun May 26, 2013 7:01 am

Fussy, Aftermath has a good solution. I picked up a couple of expandable batons at a gun show for my wife and daughter to carry on their exercise walks. Also, i have multiple size combat knifes with belt "rigs" for them to use if SHTF. You have to be careful though, batons and knifes ALL can be considered concealed weapons and carrying them (even in you car) without a permit can get you in trouble.

I also have a baton in my get home bag. Even though i have a permit and carry a gun daily, i still want a non lethal option.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby theoutback » Sun May 26, 2013 8:03 am

You may not have weapons, but do you really think bad guys won't??? Not very realistic!

Anyways, let's say they don't and you don't :whistling: , I would think the wisest thing to do is to plan now not to be alone. Always be in a group. One woman or man, unarmed in a shtf scenario will be at the whim of a group or even one bad person that wishes to do you harm. My father always said, "be smart, there is always someone bigger and tougher out there than you". If a shtf thing happens, What you saw on a movie or a tv show where someone learns self defense and gets away from the bad guy is not all that probable imo.

Can you help yourself by learning some self defense skills, yes, but ask yourself if you really have the strength and skill to take on a group of bad guys. I'm not saying taking a self defense class isn't a good idea, I'm just saying to plan ahead to be in a group as much as possible, your chances for survival are better, and even better that bad guys won't even try to take on a group.

Most likely those bad guys will have weapons anyways, and your screwed if you think your going to stop a guy with a gun and all you have is your self defense class.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby namwal » Sun May 26, 2013 9:30 am

My experience with expandable batons is that they are not very effective. They tend not to incapacitate an aggressor as they do not have the weight or mass of say a baseball bat. I've also seen name brand batons come apart when needed. Keep in mind, blunt objects are only as effective and exert only as much force as those who wield them.

Knives and edged weapons were the number one weapon for most of history, and are still good to have. True knife fighting is actually a learned skill. It takes strength, some nerve and a certain mindset to plunge a knife inside the flesh of another living human. It is a messy business and forces you to be up close to the threat.

There are arrows and spears of course but they require a great deal of skill and are not easily carried or concealed and are not easily readied when surprised at home in your lazy boy chair. Throwing knives and stars to me are mostly gimmicks providing the enemy with a weapon to use against you is foolish.

A firearm is the only true equalizer. Years of martial arts won't necessarily make a 90 lbs female able to defeat a motivated and aggressive 250 lbs male. Hollywood has us believing that highly trained supermodels can knock our badguys like a superhero. While there certainly are some very dangerous female fighters, there are very few who could succeed in hand to hand combat with a much stronger opponent. Remember even in martial arts competitions (as with most sports), women and men fight separately. This is not to say one shouldn't train or consider the use of whatever non conventional weapon is at hand, but much defensive tactics training for women is to use explosive force and surprise to gain an opportunity to escape from say a rapist in a public place, not from a home invader. There is a reason women are the victims of domestic abuse and rarely men. Please don't kid yourself into a false sense of security.

A modern firearm is simply the most efficient weapon available. That's why it is used by military, law enforcement and drug cartels etc. My wife and family are all trained to use a firearm (although with the current cost of ammo, our practice on the range has gone neglected). If you live in a real American state that allows concealed carry, DO IT! It does no good however to carry in public, but not have it available in case someone bursts into your home by surprise.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby arkieready » Sun May 26, 2013 9:40 am

Always be aware of your surroundings. Not only threats, but also escape routes, safe havens, and potential impromptu weapons. A can of beer or soda hits like a brick. A rock, stick, car antenna, heavy purse, keys, kids toys, cup of coffee. . Anything you can throw at, poke with, trip with.
I'd bite, kick, scratch , punch, crush man parts or windpipes poke eyes, scream in his ear, head bash, foot stomp, stick with keys or scissors. Purple nurple him/her. Frying pan, shovel, throw a cat at him. Whatever. Weapon at hand is the best one. If I have to go get a gun, I will empty the magazine. Into his heart. I conceal carry in public and home. But if I didn't, I would use the closet thing to me. Even if it was just a handful of sand.
I have used impromptu weapons. Against animals. A bad dog I threw a hunk of firewood. A hawk on my chicken, a rock. I hit my own dog with stones (and an egg) for chasing chickens. Sticks at my horses for walking down gates. And a bottle of garlic salt at my ex bf for laughing at me. Oh, yeah.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby daaswampman » Sun May 26, 2013 10:03 am

Prepping is about not being in that situation. Buy more guns, learn to shoot, and always have one handy. Even a cheap gun is better than all other weapons combined. Swamp
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Dagnyy » Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 am

Dear & Swamp know whereof they speak. :thumbsup:

Post-SHTF, a lone woman is nothing more than prey for any predator out there who wants what she has... mebbe it's the food cooking on the fire, mebbe it's everything in her backpack, vehicle or home, mebbe it's "her" or her & the kids said predator wants.

Leaving a gal alone and taking the gun with you is a real good way to lose your gal, your kids and everything else you have.

So, gal needs to get a gun ASAP, learn how to shoot it, get herself a conceal carry handgun permit in order to learn how to carry it allllllll the time and, post-SHTF, keep the gun on her 24/7. And while hubby is gone, she & kids stay close, maintain an extremely low profile and EXPECT trouble.

Anything else is an engraved invitation to the pond scum of this life.

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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Senah » Sun May 26, 2013 1:20 pm

I think good self-defense training is important, and getting in really good shape also helps. Part of good physical training is tough mental training (forcing yourself to exercise every day and push your body requires mental discipline and confidence). These are things that will help you think clearly in a situation and gain the upper hand. Also, you will be stinger and faster, and have a better chance of exploiting weaknesses.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Everyman » Sun May 26, 2013 2:16 pm

The best self-defense after a gun is a hand grenade. When the bad guys over run you, you hold the spoon, pull the pin, hold it up where they can see it and say: “You got me….Now what are you going to do?”
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby FussyOldHen » Sun May 26, 2013 3:38 pm

The one, single, solitary thing that drives me crazy about most of the people on survival or prepper sites is their superior attitude that they will be in control of a situation all the time, under all circumstances, no matter what. They are absolutely certain that nothing will happen to them that they didn't prep for. Well, PPPPPPFFFFFFTTTTT! (That's a big, juicy raspberry, if you couldn't tell.) And if anything happens that doesn't fit their self-assured, pre-written scenarios, they're caught flat-footed with their finger up their nose, mentally dead in the water.

They apparently don't even run through scenarios in their head under everyday circumstances, thinking about what they could do if the situation changed in just a heartbeat.

So, if you haven't got a gun and a big knife, reduced to just being armed with your brain, arms and legs, you're just gonna lay down and die, right?

Come on, people! All that has to happen is for you to be distracted or simply not paying attention. "Oh, in a survival situation, I'll always be paying attention! Hubby will always be right by my side, gun in hand. The kids will always be on leashes." Yeah, sure. And you're the princess in a fairy tale.

Have you ever been in a car accident? Have any of your kids ever disappeared in a crowd in a fraction of a second, or run into traffic? Have you ever been approached by an obnoxious drunk on an empty street or alley? Have you, at any time, run into a person that wasn't acting like you thought he or she ought to be? REALLY? Well, imagine that! :rolleyes:

Well, I can tell this thread is pretty much dead. So I'm going to give you ladies a couple of little tips:

1. If someone is coming at you from the front or side, don't even waste a fraction of a second planning on kicking him in the balls; men will instinctively protect themselves. Instead, instantly turn so he is approaching from your side. Steady yourself (even grab a support, if available), and shift your weight to the leg away from him. When he gets within reach, raise your kicking foot and stomp down on the top of his knee as hard as you can. If you kick him with a little ballerina toe-kick, you're too dumb to live. I mean chop down with your foot sideways, like you have a stick of firewood leaning against a rock and you want to break it in half. What you want to do is redesign his leg so his knee folds the wrong way. Yes, it will cripple him, probably forever -- were you thinking that I deal only in Marquess of Queensberry Rules? NO. I play this game to win. Your next job is to run away.

If one person has grabbed you from behind, and another is in front of you, use the support of the one you've got to brace yourself, and see if you can get a good knee-chopping kick at the one in front. Once he's down, reach down and behind you and grab your captor's genitals -- squeeze as hard as you can and dig your nails in. Usually, he will let go of you so he can remove the vise that has got his family jewels. Let go of him, step away and kick him as previously described, then run.

If you're on the ground, draw up your knees in what might appear as a victim's attitude, and if the opportunity presents itself, slam one foot into the side of his knee. Knees don't normally fold from that direction, and even if you can't cripple him, it hurts awfully (my 50# dog just playfully swung her hip into my knee like this, and I couldn't move a step; I had to yell for a neighbor to go into my house and get my mom's walker).

Just remember one main thing: your legs are longer and more powerful than most men's arms. Use them to your advantage. A man can protect his genitals by just reaching down. He can't protect his knees. :evil:

2. If an opportunity is provided, use your elbow, the heel of your hand, or a balled-up fist, and hit them in the throat, genitals, or try to drive his nose upward into his forehead. Slapping him fits into the Stupid Category and will make him laugh.

3. Poke him in both eyes at once, hard; the best use of acrylic nails. Oh, you're afraid to hurt him? He wants to hurt you, and you want to be a fluttery wimp? If you do manage to live, maybe you could get a brain transplant.

3. If you're on the ground and your legs are free, you can take a guy down quite easily. Try this on hubby or your teenage son. I've used it on my sister -- works great! Lie on your side so you're facing his approach, have your legs crossed slightly with the top leg somewhat forward, both knees bent, like you're making room for him to pass. As he walks past you, trip him by shooting out your underneath foot in front of his nearest ankle, and knock him down by quickly kicking him in the same leg behind his knee with the heel of your other foot, then slide this foot a little farther. Keep your feet and legs in position, and as he falls, bring his lower leg up and hold it in position. He should be on the ground, face-down, and his nearest leg to you trapped, bent backward into a V at the knee, with your leg inside the V. You can just hold him there of you've got help coming soon, or you can apply some pressure and break his lower leg, using your leg as the fulcrum. If this guy had attacked me, I'd break his leg and leave the scene. After all, we're playing by his rules, not mine. I just changed the rules to make him the one that gets hurt. 8)

Take a good, basic, street-style self-defense class, Sweetie; Daddy won't always be around... esp if he's dead and his killers took his guns. It's up to you, now. Are you up to it, or are you still the princess in Dreamland?
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby arkieready » Sun May 26, 2013 6:03 pm

Touche
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