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Self-defense without a gun?

For all the lady preppers out there

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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Senah » Mon May 27, 2013 12:00 pm

Well, I think that the majority of us, with what we do day to day and where we operate, a natural disaster or event is more likely to affect us than a person with hostile intentions coming into our home or up to us and everything falling into place so that we successfully defend ourselves and they get theirs. Let me give a personal example from two weeks ago.

My husband and I do a lot of hiking in the national forest in Montana - fishing and hunting trips. We decided 2 weekends ago to go up into the mountains where the snowmelt hasn't gone too far and the rivers are still clear and do some wet wading and try to get at fish up there. I train 5 days a week (running, legs, core, arms, etc.), and I did pretty well with the first 20 river crossings and climbing up and down the banks to get around obstacles. The river was a lot higher and faster than we expected, but I certainly held my own. However, about 2 hours in, when a large stone turned under my foot, I lost my balance, fell in, and went under, and started getting dragged downstream. Immediately, my mind paused and I thought: 1) get your head up, 2) try and get your legs around and pointing downstream to avoid boulders and steer, 3) try and make your way over to a rock or something and drag yourself onto it fast - you need to get out of this water! I was able to do all of those things quickly - and drag myself and my pack out by pulling all the weight up with my legs, because I am strong enough from my weekly workouts (which takes mental training to get my butt there, for sure).

My husband was able to get out of the river and walk downstream and help me get my gear across the rest of the fast moving water as I was cold and tired at that point. We always carry dry clothes, fire making tools, emergency blankets, medicine, and food. However, not too much, or my pack would have dragged me under and kept me there. It was a long 3 hours after that getting out, but I am glad I was prepared. In that scenario, having one of my guns with me would only have meant it would have ended up on the bottom of one of Montana's roaring bodies of water. If I hadn't been able to pull myself up onto a rock, I would have had to jettison my pack, and lots of useful items - in other words, if I had brought everything under the sun we could have ever needed, it would have been too heavy for me, and I might not have been as maneuverable.

The truth is, most posters on APN will be taken down by a natural event, and in actuality it will probably be diabetes, a stroke, or pneumonia. A gun, knife, or grenade isn't going to help with that I'm sorry to say. However, getting in peak physical shape, and prepping your mind to handle an emergency the moment it happens, so that it snaps into gear within 1-2 seconds and saves your life, that very well may save your life, no matter the situation you find yourself facing.

My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
Senah


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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby daaswampman » Mon May 27, 2013 12:33 pm

Prepping is about not being in that situation. Training is important as is exercise, but neither will level the field as fast as a loaded pistol. Just the thoughts of an old bar fighter. Most people have never even been in a fistfight and yet they want to give advice. Hint - it is not like they show on TV or demonstrate in self defence class. Most assaults are won with a single, unexpected blow. Everything else is for entertainment. Swamp
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby AuntBee » Mon May 27, 2013 5:08 pm

I always have my blackthorn walking stick -- and I do mean always; can't walk far without it. It's a weapon as much as a walking stick and it's hard as an iron bar.

In addition to Fussy Old Hen's great advice, and another good use for those acrylic nails, is to jam two fingers up your attacker's nostrils, especially if you can't get at the eyes (sunglasses or other protective eye coverings). It is a totally unexpected move, makes it difficult for the attacker to breathe, and delivers excruciating pain. As FOH said, the attacker is trying to hurt or kill you. Fight dirty. Don't forget biting and don't be afraid to scream if you can.

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Learned some of this the hard way
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby SSGT » Mon May 27, 2013 8:44 pm

Self defense classes are great for the ladies...Batons...Canes and whatever is better than nothing. But why would you be without a gun?

My wife shoots Sporting clays and Trap/Skeet REGULARLY....tens of Thousands of rounds a year through several shotguns..all Remington Automatics...Do you think she would forget how to take the safety off any more than a man? She would probably would do better in home defense than most men...Most men CAN'T outshoot her! She shoots so much its totally natural to her...a part of her body. She has her home defense guns...2 Rem 11-87 autos with 18.5 inch barrels loaded with 00 buck and she has her own ammo....about 600 rounds 00 buck for the two. She can reload an empty shotgun in seconds! She reloads thousands of 12 gauge shotgun shells a month with no help from me.

How many of you men fire a shotgun 100 to 200 times a day for over 200 plus days a year? None!

Guys that go to ranges and get good with weapons and don't include their wives in the same amount of practice...or even more until his wife is every bit as good as he is...Is a FOOL!

My wife also fires my .308's and my 22.250's at 300 yard 6 inch steel gongs and gets bored with it cause she don't ever miss!...Still I have her shoot a few hundred rounds a year...she can load...unload...and even RELOAD rifle cartridges...It may not be her cup of tea but she's still GOOD at it!

I shoot 5 days a week...Rifles are my thing but I shoot a lot of the same stuff she does....especially sporting clays!

Sometimes we shoot pistols...My wife loves the .45 and the .40 S&W M&P's...she carries a Ruger SR9C in Stainless with the 17 round mags and Black Talon ammo(New Version SXT)...She started pistol shooting with a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag about 30 years ago! She can dissasemble...clean and reassemble any of them in minutes.

Girls you need just as much practice with every gun in your families arsenal until your confident enough to load/unload in a pitch black room without a hitch EVERY time! You need practice so that hitting a bullseye isnt even fun anymore! you need to know if the safety is off or on by TOUCH...not sight!

I dont care if your 16 or 100....There's no excuse to be a victim and no excuse to depend on any man for total protection!

Yank up them big girl bloomers and get REAL MEAN!

I went to some womans section on one of these prepper forums and got a penalty point for posting.....Well I figure I needed to say this so if I get kicked out of the forums so be it...Girls....You CAN take care of yourself! My wife is a BETSY BADASS with almost any gun!

PEP Talk over!

Just do it girls!
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Prepper K » Mon May 27, 2013 9:58 pm

I recently started taking some defense classes. I won't say its self defense, but it is definitely defensive with offensive mixed in. The goal of the training is to make your attacker submit, disable them, and move on. So far I have to say it is been very educational and fun as well. My first class left me with a few bruises and some sore muscles but if you are not training properly why train at all. We don't go all out when practicing on each other, but we do make contact.

I agree a weapon is a great way of defense, however an attacker can cover several feet very quickly. Unless you have your gun out and drawn down on your target, you may never get it out of the holster. Training in self defense and include a component that works with a weapon is great. The two go hand in hand. If you can mitigate before going to handgun then great. If you have to resort to shooting your attacker, then so be it, as it is their fault for attacking you in the first place.

When you resort to killing someone you have to deal with the mental aspects of it. (I can't wait for the flaming on that statement). Most people feel compelled to "help" someone in a bad situation. In general we are programmed to be compassionate and caring (which is why we have children, pets, jobs, etc etc etc) speak to a person who has had to pull the trigger in combat, it is a life changing event.

If I was a lady and looking for way to handle situations, I would enroll in some sort of self defense that has a weapon component in it as well. This way I would have the training to handle most situations.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Senah » Mon May 27, 2013 10:46 pm

This original post was titled "Self-defense without a gun" and so all of the responses regarding the importance of using a gun and it being the best defense just seem :offtopic: to me. Of course the ideal is to have a gun and face an attacker that way, and shooting is better than punching, but we have entire sections and threads for that, and it is completely the opposite of that the OP asked.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby daaswampman » Tue May 28, 2013 9:07 am

Prepper K wrote:I recently started taking some defense classes. I won't say its self defense, but it is definitely defensive with offensive mixed in. The goal of the training is to make your attacker submit, disable them, and move on. So far I have to say it is been very educational and fun as well. My first class left me with a few bruises and some sore muscles but if you are not training properly why train at all. We don't go all out when practicing on each other, but we do make contact.

I agree a weapon is a great way of defense, however an attacker can cover several feet very quickly. Unless you have your gun out and drawn down on your target, you may never get it out of the holster. Training in self defense and include a component that works with a weapon is great. The two go hand in hand. If you can mitigate before going to handgun then great. If you have to resort to shooting your attacker, then so be it, as it is their fault for attacking you in the first place.

When you resort to killing someone you have to deal with the mental aspects of it. (I can't wait for the flaming on that statement). Most people feel compelled to "help" someone in a bad situation. In general we are programmed to be compassionate and caring (which is why we have children, pets, jobs, etc etc etc) speak to a person who has had to pull the trigger in combat, it is a life changing event.

If I was a lady and looking for way to handle situations, I would enroll in some sort of self defense that has a weapon component in it as well. This way I would have the training to handle most situations.



"When you resort to killing someone you have to deal with the mental aspects of it." Yes! The rush of joy and excitement can be hard to deal with! Swamp
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby celt » Tue May 28, 2013 1:06 pm

Reality?? Seeing lot's of urban myth and legend in their own mind rhetoric here.

Fussy, you have some very valid points. However, If you are not a practicing, expert fighter/martial artist and are not practicing full contact, you have no clue. Basically if you cant take a hit, you will not make it. Your strength however, is that you are actively thinking about it and trying to do something. That is a plus.

Many muggers, street fighters and other similar types wear a protective cup. Eye's are very small targets and fine motor skills go out the window in an adrenaline rush. Ever see convicts work out? Do weapon disarm drills? Offensive tactics? I have. Prisons and county jails are boot camp and higher education for these types. Do not discount their skills. Others with military, combat or full contact fight experience may be who you have to deal with.

Knives, guns, batons, bats, bottles, sling shot or empty hand.........................all require skill. Sometimes you get lucky but skill and plain old toughness is better.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby timmy » Tue May 28, 2013 4:53 pm

Yer gonna have to git just pure mean, and you are gonna hurt yourself inflicting more pain on the perp, but it's better than losing!
If you have learned how to disassociate you won't feal much pain until it's done! Don't carry a weapon unless you are fully prepared to use it, or it will end up being used on you. There is not such thing as a fair fight, if you fight, you fight to win or die trying! Eye's, ears, nose, mouth, hair, throat, collar bones, ribs, kidney's, bladder, groin, fingers, toes, etc.. are all targets. Hitting, grabbing, poking, kicking, elbow punches, knees kicks, biting, etc.. are all fair!
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Dagnyy » Wed May 29, 2013 10:24 am

Just because the OP asked about self-defense without a gun doesn't mean the rest of us must constrain our answers to same.

It's the nature of the bulletin board beast that discussions will often include advice directly contrary to the poster's topic... trying to constrain replies means you're looking to blog, not discuss.

Just as some folks are dead set against ever raising a weapon against another human being, even at the risk of their lives, there're others who can be counted on... yes, even in their jammies and bunny slippers... to have a weapon at the ready and not be all that upset about using it to protect themselves, their loved ones and their stuff.

And for some of us, the weapon will be a gun.

This is a viable topic with extremely viable answers to the dilemma posted... and yes, the answers that advocate one never be without a gun (much less letting hubby walk outta the post-SHTF home/camp with the only gun) are just as viable as FussyOldHen's advice.

Kudos to everyone who posted herein.

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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Tinga » Wed May 29, 2013 11:19 am

Singly the most important thing I could say about self defense is this : Learning that it's OK to hit. Going "hands on" with someone is a very personal act and we've been taught ( well some of us anyways) to keep your hands to yourself and 'no hitting'. COUNTLESS time in classes I've seen people pretty unwilling to just smack the hell outta redman about to attack them. They kinda noodle arm it, laugh and get all embarrassed. The ones that really wanna learn, by the end of the class they are the ones yelling and screaming and doing palm strikes. It's a process. You gotta know what it's like and how you will react. At least a little bit.

I can distinctly remember the first time I was "hit" in a scenario (training related not self defense classes) and the impact it had on me. Got smacked right in the kisser. No warning just POW! I can recall him charging at me and that was it.... some strikes, pushes and eventually a gun discharge. I was asked some questions about what happened immediately afterwards. I couldn't REMEMBER ANYTHING! I was asked " How long were you engaged, how many rounds were expended, what happened step by step and even what his name was" I had a REALLY hard time remembering. The total *SHOCK* of getting hit and the power it had was just phenomenal. Even though I KNEW something was going to happen It was still very new to me.

All I have to say is..go to some classes. Hit things, kick stuff, desensitize yourself to it. It'll be WAAAY less of a shock to you than it was to me. And while to DO have a collapsible baton, I never felt that it had enough force, say.... compared to a well placed palm strike. Just seemed to me glancing blows were all it was capable of.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby bane5150 » Wed May 29, 2013 3:39 pm

If you dont have a gun use the knife thats clipped to your pocket. YES you can bring a knife to a gunfight and WIN! But thats been explained in a different topic and by those trained in the use of bladed weapons.
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby RayMac1963 » Thu May 30, 2013 9:04 am

SSGT wrote:Girls you need just as much practice with every gun in your families arsenal until your confident enough to load/unload in a pitch black room without a hitch EVERY time! You need practice so that hitting a bullseye isnt even fun anymore! you need to know if the safety is off or on by TOUCH...not sight!




My first gun instructor made us do this. I have never heard anyone else talk about training like it since.
I can't help but think God is up there right now saying "its time to shake the ol' Etch-A-Sketch and restart humanity again".



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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby Calimom » Fri May 31, 2013 12:22 am

WOW! Thank you Ma'am! Haven't heard anyone bring it home like you did "Fussy"...needed to be said...
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Re: Self-defense without a gun?

Postby daaswampman » Fri May 31, 2013 9:20 am

Follow the news and you will see many are missing a major point. Many attacks, if not most, are not by one person. It is also unlikely your are like the gals in Kill Bill. First avoid the situation, then have a gun and be willing to use it. If you only hurt them, they are far more likely to kill you. Swamp
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