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EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby ReadyMom » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:16 am

Cast Iron wrote:A recent House Hearing on EMPs.
Provides some additional data.

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/ ... 171012.pdf


Was just coming over to post this. Also some headlines to go with that release: (I'll cross post the headlines over in the North Korea thread) -k

Single EMP Attack by North Korea Will Destroy US, Experts Tell Congress
https://www.courthousenews.com/emp-atta ... -congress/

Congress warned North Korean EMP attack would kill '90% of all Americans'
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/congr ... le/2637349
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:38 pm

kenjabroni wrote:TRex

if you are using the metal cans like you said and you recommend using 1/2 inch of insulation inside could you use the foam insulation as protection inside the cans instead of cardboard? I could get a sheet of that stuff and form it inside the can easier than layers of cardboard.

I don't see any reason why not. As long as there isn't any way to conduct electric shocks from the can to the equipment in it, you're good. Cardboard is usually used because almost anyone can get it and use it.


Cast Iron wrote:A recent House Hearing on EMPs.
Provides some additional data.

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/ ... 171012.pdf

Thanks.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:10 pm

Cast Iron wrote:A recent House Hearing on EMPs.
Provides some additional data.

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/ ... 171012.pdf

I read through it, and while there are (IIRC) three points on which the "gee whizzed" themselves into serious logical flaws, 98% of it is spot on. I already knew over 90% of it, from my previous studies (I have an odd hobby of reading things like doctoral dissertations in nuclear physics and stuff), but just the same, my instinct is to slap a "CONFIDENTIAL" classified label on it and mail it to my congressman.

The most important part of the whole report is on page 10, and is, well, ALL of page 10. Anyone who doesn't want to read the whole report can just go there and read that one page. It should scare the socks off of them, if they have any common sense.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby kenjabroni » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:56 pm

HOLY COW......9......all they have to do is take out 9 of the big transformers out of 2000 and we could have massive lights out.....That is absolutely insane.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Cast Iron » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:18 pm

TRex2 wrote:
Cast Iron wrote:A recent House Hearing on EMPs.
Provides some additional data.

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/ ... 171012.pdf

I read through it, and while there are (IIRC) three points on which the "gee whizzed" themselves into serious logical flaws, 98% of it is spot on. I already knew over 90% of it, from my previous studies (I have an odd hobby of reading things like doctoral dissertations in nuclear physics and stuff), but just the same, my instinct is to slap a "CONFIDENTIAL" classified label on it and mail it to my congressman.

The most important part of the whole report is on page 10, and is, well, ALL of page 10. Anyone who doesn't want to read the whole report can just go there and read that one page. It should scare the socks off of them, if they have any common sense.


I too felt some of it was already know stuff. But it did hammer home some information or at least bring it back into public view.

What three points do you question?
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:34 am

Cast Iron wrote:I too felt some of it was already know stuff. But it did hammer home some information or at least bring it back into public view.

That is very true. While those of us who have studied this know all of these things, this is the first time I have seen it all in one concise paper, and that is why I had that "classify it and send it to my congressman" reaction.

What three points do you question?

They are things I have brought up here, before. First is that "super EMP" weapon. They regurgitate that idea that it will produce 100,000 volts per meter. I suspect they didn't have too many people in the working group that actually understand the math and physics involved. The may have had one or two, but if they did, they shut them out by way of groupthink.

The brought up North Korea’s Kwangmyongsong-3 (KMS-3) and Kwangmyongsong-4 (KMS-4) satellites, again. As I pointed out, there is ample evidence that those satellites are NOT EMP devices, since N.K. didn't have that technology (not even close to or similar tech) when those were launched.

That said, while I knew that Fractional Orbital Bombardment System was theoretically possible, I was unaware that the Russians had done any planning towards using that idea. That information was new to me.

The only other item I can see today that is a bit over hyped is on page 8, were this paragraph:
The North Korean missile test on April 29, 2017, which apparently detonated at an altitude of 72
kilometers, the optimum height-of-burst for EMP attack by a 10 KT warhead, would create a
potentially damaging EMP field spanning, not the academic’s miscalculated 20 kilometers
radius, but to about 930 kilometers radius [Kilometers Radius = 110 (Kilometers Burst Height to
the 0.5 Power)]

is over simplified, and I believe, mathematically incorrect. Don't know were they got that but it just doesn't look right at all. (Looking at those footnotes and scratching my head - can't figure out where they got that formula)
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Important resources for determining specifics of EMP density and radius,
that are probably beyond the scope of anything preppers need to know,
but are within the scope of understanding the actual threat.
(Preppers generally only need to know how to mitigate the threat, not
the mathematics we use to determine how strong the impact will be.)

Justification and Verification of High Altitude EMP Theory
http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes ... /TN368.pdf

Distance to Horizon.
http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm

In the case in my previous posting, a warhead would be exploded at 72 kilometers height. This is about 32,000 meters above the altitude where gamma rays would intersect the atmosphere at 40km. I use 40km because that is the altitude at which most of the gamma rays traveling almost at a tangent to the atmosphere would impact electrons.

Feeding that 32,000 meters into the Distance to Horizon calculator gives a radius of 640Km. In addition, because the gamma rays are traveling almost parallel to the ground, the EMP effect of them impacting electrons would be blunted and at that angle it would require a fairly massive nuclear detonation to generate substantial EMP, so true damage radius would be substantially less. (But still way past 20Km that the paper in question was trying to refute) Therefore, in spite of my substantial agreement with the commission, I think they "gee whizzed" themselves on this particular calculation.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Cast Iron » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:53 pm

TRex2 wrote:
Cast Iron wrote:I too felt some of it was already know stuff. But it did hammer home some information or at least bring it back into public view.

That is very true. While those of us who have studied this know all of these things, this is the first time I have seen it all in one concise paper, and that is why I had that "classify it and send it to my congressman" reaction.

What three points do you question?

They are things I have brought up here, before. First is that "super EMP" weapon. They regurgitate that idea that it will produce 100,000 volts per meter. I suspect they didn't have too many people in the working group that actually understand the math and physics involved. The may have had one or two, but if they did, they shut them out by way of groupthink.

The brought up North Korea’s Kwangmyongsong-3 (KMS-3) and Kwangmyongsong-4 (KMS-4) satellites, again. As I pointed out, there is ample evidence that those satellites are NOT EMP devices, since N.K. didn't have that technology (not even close to or similar tech) when those were launched.

That said, while I knew that Fractional Orbital Bombardment System was theoretically possible, I was unaware that the Russians had done any planning towards using that idea. That information was new to me.

The only other item I can see today that is a bit over hyped is on page 8, were this paragraph:
The North Korean missile test on April 29, 2017, which apparently detonated at an altitude of 72
kilometers, the optimum height-of-burst for EMP attack by a 10 KT warhead, would create a
potentially damaging EMP field spanning, not the academic’s miscalculated 20 kilometers
radius, but to about 930 kilometers radius [Kilometers Radius = 110 (Kilometers Burst Height to
the 0.5 Power)]

is over simplified, and I believe, mathematically incorrect. Don't know were they got that but it just doesn't look right at all. (Looking at those footnotes and scratching my head - can't figure out where they got that formula)


Thank you for your clear and concise response.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Cast Iron » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:12 am

She has a different way of looking at it.

Not sure I entirely agree.

https://www.theorganicprepper.ca/why-lo ... o-04212017
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby John Galt 1 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:05 am

In 2004 (if I remember the year correctly) Russia informed the US government that N. Korea had managed to steal from Russia the plans on how to make a EMP (high gamma output) bomb.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby sageprice » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:06 pm

Sigh! lets total up what we know.
1# you will get no warning. The Guberment won't tell you any thing about an attack. So if you don't have spare electronics stored already you're screwed.
2# the power grid will take a hit, so will solar arrays, and any exposed power bank inverter.
3# Most Gensets are by design old fashion, and "MIGHT" survive, but unless you have infinite fuel it is only a short term solution.
In short unless you have military harden electronics and shielded solar cells you can forget AC power. You can buy a cheap tablet and keep it, thumb drives, and a back pack solar charger in shielded container until needed. Throw in a spare car ECM and write all off until needed if ever, and learn how to build a motor generator. Or just learn how our ancestors did it.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Illini Warrior » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:54 pm

John Galt 1 wrote:In 2004 (if I remember the year correctly) Russia informed the US government that N. Korea had managed to steal from Russia the plans on how to make a EMP (high gamma output) bomb.



the whole EMP attack on the US or Japan or even South Korea is all BS - North Korea has limited fusion materials - won't be wasting them on EMPing - they'll be going for major city center core destruction with the few nukes they have - it's totally a suicide plunge for them ... on the other hand the Ruskies and Chinese have enhanced EMP potential worked into their initial attack plans - surprise opening gambit hoping to eliminate key military response & communication & detection ....

if you want something to worry about in reality - sabotage across the country by highly trained long employed professionals - armed to the teeth with detail plans to wreak havoc and death - North Korea has been bursting coded messages internationally with high volume increases in advance of their weapons displays .....
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Illini Warrior » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:54 pm

John Galt 1 wrote:In 2004 (if I remember the year correctly) Russia informed the US government that N. Korea had managed to steal from Russia the plans on how to make a EMP (high gamma output) bomb.



the whole EMP attack on the US or Japan or even South Korea is all BS - North Korea has limited fusion materials - won't be wasting them on EMPing - they'll be going for major city center core destruction with the few nukes they have - it's totally a suicide plunge for them ... on the other hand the Ruskies and Chinese have enhanced EMP potential worked into their initial attack plans - surprise opening gambit hoping to eliminate key military response & communication & detection ....

if you want something to worry about in reality - sabotage across the country by highly trained long employed professionals - armed to the teeth with detail plans to wreak havoc and death - North Korea has been bursting coded messages internationally with high volume increases in advance of their weapons displays .....
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Illini Warrior » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:55 pm

John Galt 1 wrote:In 2004 (if I remember the year correctly) Russia informed the US government that N. Korea had managed to steal from Russia the plans on how to make a EMP (high gamma output) bomb.



the whole EMP attack on the US or Japan or even South Korea is all BS - North Korea has limited fusion materials - won't be wasting them on EMPing - they'll be going for major city center core destruction with the few nukes they have - it's totally a suicide plunge for them ... on the other hand the Ruskies and Chinese have enhanced EMP potential worked into their initial attack plans - surprise opening gambit hoping to eliminate key military response & communication & detection ....

if you want something to worry about in reality - sabotage across the country by highly trained long employed professionals - armed to the teeth with detail plans to wreak havoc and death - North Korea has been bursting coded messages internationally with high volume increases in advance of their weapons displays .....
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby rickdun » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:11 pm

3 times Illini.
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