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Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our children

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Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our children

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Hi all...

I'm looking for advice from parents here...

I've long been leery of the systematic dumbing down of our children put into place since the 60's. (A free, thinking, society is an uncontrollable society...)

The public school system failed me and many others in my middle income neighborhood I was raised in.... now 25 years later it is clearly worse. No child left behind means push them thru to the next teacher and they're not your problem anymore(High school kids that cant read, don't even know what a check book looks like, doesn't even know what the 3 branches of government looks like, and now common core, etc...)

We've already decided home school/ Private school for our 18 month old(Wife was a toddler teacher for 16 years) to give our little girl the best chances at life with a proper education that can be applied in the real world vs thrown to the wolves....

Now I see this and it reminds me of the issue currently facing me here....It's not an Obama thing....This has been happening for decades. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/02/09/americas-kids-got-more-stupid-in-reading-math-and-science-while-team-obama-was-in-charge.html

So here's the question.....What are your thoughts, PRO Vs. CONS?

Socialization?
Integration?
education speed?
lack of friends?
Cost vs. just paying taxes?
The growth of the home school in America vs. when you might have done it? (Field trips/group meet ups, etc...)

Please mention any practical experience you might have in this area.....I really want to go into this "Eye's wide open" :eek:

Feel free to debate as I want this an open discussion even if you didn't home school... just play nice. ;)

Thanks you guys so much in advance...

~~~DR1VEN
In honor of RebNavy...RIP buddy. You made me smile. :)

Postby rebnavy1862 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:00 pm
Driven, are you sure you are from Kalifornia? You make a lot of sense.
Reb"Then call us Rebels if you will, we glory in the name, for bending under unjust laws and swearing faith to an unjust cause, we count as greater shame". Richmond Daily Dispatch May 12 1862
Semper Fi, Sic Semper Tyrannis, Remember The Alamo, and Aide'toi et Dieu T'aidera!
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby North County Guy » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:07 pm

I have to agree with you, especially here in Commiefornia.

I do believe they need the Socialization, friends.
We ended up sending my son to a private math class, he was failing the classes in school. He passed all of the private (smaller group, not PRIVATE), teachers all said he got it, understood just explained it in his style that the high school would not except.
He has a few teachers that he LOVES, they tend to be more conservative.
He is done in May, Thankfully.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby anita » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:15 pm

Hi, I have three kids, ages 30 down to 17 (high school senior). I am a product of a mediocre-at-best public school. My husband went to a good (and tracked) public school.

We started our kids in a Quaker school (what I learned there--Quakers are socialist--by their own admission). We didn't stay long.

We moved to public school, in a "good" suburban district, supposedly one of the top in the state (in PA that isn't saying a lot). Mediocre. Large class sizes, all the moneys go to the Special Ed end of the spectrum. I was on the district superintendent's Parent Advisory Council (one parent from each of the schools in the district), and gifted/special ed came up at one point. A parent asked what rights the "regular" student had, and the superintendent responded "none."

The public school was mediocre. Didn't challenge the smart kids. So off to a private prep school we went. It was good for our older son, our daughter would have been better off staying in public school, as she had a nice group of friends there and moving in ninth grade is a tough time. She was self-motivated and would have done well no matter where she was.

Our youngest started in public school, and we switched him to the same prep school as his siblings in fifth grade (they were then out of, or nearly out of, college.)
At that point the private school was not worth the money. The school, while always liberal, had become extreme. At one point I wanted to home school, and my husband said that was crazy, due to the socialization aspect. But two years later, he suggested we home school. (At that point our son was in tenth grade and unmotivated. Not a good candidate for home schooling.) The school has gone way whacko crazy. The teachers are blatant leftists (crying in the classroom the day after the election, suggesting that Trump would create internment camps for gays, etc.) The kids are brainwashed with a leftist ideology. I was at a school meeting where high schoolers made a presentation. It made me sick to hear the total brainwashing--like mind-numbed robots. My son and his conservative friends are demeaned and some teachers mark them down etc. (There are also excellent teachers, but not this younger crop that has come in over the last 5 or so years.)

So that's my experience. Here's my opinion. If I had it to do over, I'd home school. These days there are so many homeschoolers that I don't think socialization is a problem. Just as important, you'll share some classes with likeminded parents who are committed to their kids' education.

It will cost more, since you'll still be paying taxes, and buying books, paying for camps, tutors, etc., although some states require the schools to provide books, I think. Some may allow homeschoolers to do sports/band with the public schools. Those are things you need to check out. Whether homeschooling is more or less expensive than private school depends on how much you/your wife can earn. If the homeschooling parent can make substantially more than the cost of the private school, then maybe it's to your advantage to send to private school, since you'll make more than that. That assumes you can find a suitable private school.

Of course, if you intend to have more kids, that's a different story.

There are plenty of opportunities to make friends outside of school. There's sports, after-school programs. Our local community college has programs for home-schoolers. I think it's a huge advantage to home school if you have bright kids. Especially if they are really bright in one area, like math. They can move much faster, although you may end up paying for tutors.

The one thing I've noticed with people who homeschooled is that they tended to do really well with English, etc., if the kids were readers, the parents were readers, etc. But they tended to let the subjects they didn't like (math/science) slide and did the minimum there. Just something to be aware of.

Hope that helps. Good luck!
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby Argus » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:14 pm

Dumbing down yes. Local schools in the mid-west are sadly deficient in many areas, notably history, penmanship/handwriting, spelling, phonics, but by golly elementary school kids get Spanish and global warming shoved down their throats, like it or not. Gotta have priorities. When I explained the myriad of egregious faults with Obama care (management of risk anyone?), and why we needed to enforce immigration laws, they said "they didn't tell us that at school." Of course not. Indoctrinate them early and they'll be sheep when they reach voting age, its the liberal way. My siblings home school, they have a lot of say on curriculum. Meaningful field trips, and home school groups so there is ample opportunity for socialization, opportunity to compete in forensics, speech, debate, sports, etc. in high school. You get out of it what you put into it, so if you go "all in" your kids will definitely benefit. My 2 cents anyway, your mileage may vary.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby Cast Iron » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:32 pm

I have a good friend who home schooled his children.
They were impressive.

His eldest was very mature, well poised, and years ahead of kids of the same age in public schools.

Their group had a excellent social interaction set up. They even had a student council. Physical activities as well.

I think it is a question of finding a good group in your area.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby IceFire » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Here's the take of a former substitute teacher. I was always frustrated at the lack of learning going on. In some cases, it was the kids not caring enough to learn. In some, it was lousy teachers. Case in point...I subbed in a HS History class (majored in PoliSci/Social Science, so it was an easy class for me.) Regular teacher left NO lesson plans, so I found out where they were SUPPOSED to be, and actually TAUGHT the class. Afterward, the students said "Why can't you be our teacher ALL of the time? We've learned more from you in this class than we've learned from him ALL YEAR!" Apparently, the teacher was more concerned with coaching one of the sports teams than he was in actually teaching the class. Pathetic.
It's no wonder our schools are failing.

On the other hand, I know a LOT of people who home school. Their kids are working at levels FAR above kids their age. As for socialization, they were involved with Community Theater, (working with people of ALL ages), dance classes, music, sports, etc. so had PLENTY of interaction with others. Some that I know do our local Farmer's Market...the kids are selling their products, making change CORRECTLY (math skills, that too many of the kids in the public HS can't manage), interacting with the public, etc.

The homeschooled kids that I know are better adjusted, better educated, more involved, better behaved, and better mannered than the kids in the public schools.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:26 pm

Oh yes.... I can quote you ALL.....Mwahahaaaa.

North County Guy wrote:I have to agree with you, especially here in Commiefornia.

I do believe they need the Socialization, friends.


Ya...Especially here but planning being gone long before she's of that age. I think the socialization issue has disappeared since there's so many home schooled now....Private will be my 2nd option as of now.

Thanks for the input! :)





anita wrote:.

Our youngest started in public school, and we switched him to the same prep school as his siblings in fifth grade (they were then out of, or nearly out of, college.)
At that point the private school was not worth the money. The school, while always liberal, had become extreme. At one point I wanted to home school, and my husband said that was crazy, due to the socialization aspect. But two years later, he suggested we home school. (At that point our son was in tenth grade and unmotivated. Not a good candidate for home schooling.) The school has gone way whacko crazy. The teachers are blatant leftists (crying in the classroom the day after the election, suggesting that Trump would create internment camps for gays, etc.) The kids are brainwashed with a leftist ideology. I was at a school meeting where high schoolers made a presentation. It made me sick to hear the total brainwashing--like mind-numbed robots. My son and his conservative friends are demeaned and some teachers mark them down etc. (There are also excellent teachers, but not this younger crop that has come in over the last 5 or so years.)

So that's my experience. Here's my opinion. If I had it to do over, I'd home school. These days there are so many homeschoolers that I don't think socialization is a problem. Just as important, you'll share some classes with like-minded parents who are committed to their kids' education.


Hope that helps. Good luck!



Exactly my thoughts and opinion with the research I've done.....EXCELLENT feedback....Thanks Anita, and yes it helps a lot. :)





Argus wrote: Indoctrinate them early and they'll be sheep when they reach voting age, its the liberal way. My siblings home school, they have a lot of say on curriculum. Meaningful field trips, and home school groups so there is ample opportunity for socialization, opportunity to compete in forensics, speech, debate, sports, etc. in high school. You get out of it what you put into it, so if you go "all in" your kids will definitely benefit. My 2 cents anyway, your mileage may vary.


Exactly....Thank you VERY much for your $.02..... Really appreciated.




Cast Iron wrote:I have a good friend who home schooled his children.
They were impressive.

His eldest was very mature, well poised, and years ahead of kids of the same age in public schools.

Their group had a excellent social interaction set up. They even had a student council. Physical activities as well.

I think it is a question of finding a good group in your area.



Thanks CI....as always, you're on point. Student council...Hmmm...hadn't heard of that before. :thumbup:





IceFire wrote:Here's the take of a former substitute teacher. I was always frustrated at the lack of learning going on. In some cases, it was the kids not caring enough to learn. In some, it was lousy teachers. Case in point...I subbed in a HS History class (majored in PoliSci/Social Science, so it was an easy class for me.) Regular teacher left NO lesson plans, so I found out where they were SUPPOSED to be, and actually TAUGHT the class. Afterward, the students said "Why can't you be our teacher ALL of the time? We've learned more from you in this class than we've learned from him ALL YEAR!" Apparently, the teacher was more concerned with coaching one of the sports teams than he was in actually teaching the class. Pathetic.
It's no wonder our schools are failing.

On the other hand, I know a LOT of people who home school. Their kids are working at levels FAR above kids their age. As for socialization, they were involved with Community Theater, (working with people of ALL ages), dance classes, music, sports, etc. so had PLENTY of interaction with others. Some that I know do our local Farmer's Market...the kids are selling their products, making change CORRECTLY (math skills, that too many of the kids in the public HS can't manage), interacting with the public, etc.

The home schooled kids that I know are better adjusted, better educated, more involved, better behaved, and better mannered than the kids in the public schools.



Thank you for the insider perspective IceFire....I've seen the teacher issue first hand...I saw they didn't care, the kids around me didn't care, so why should I???

I just kept getting passed on to the next year without any education....became so hostile I dropped out in 9th grade and did the GED(Joke of a test BTW...a monkey could pass that thing)....I got out in the real world at an early age but suffered without any direction into my 30's(Dad passed in 6th grade and Mom had to work graveyard to support us so not really parents fault. ;) ).....Thank GOD I was actually blessed with a OK IQ with a love for reading and educated myself as I cant even imagine where I'd be now in life if I didn't....

I have to avoid these issues at all cost for my little girl....1st hand experience from me on these failings....Nothing teaches you fire is hot like a burned hand. :x





You all are amazing....as always you freely spend your time helping us with debating and life decisions. I cant remember finding more helpful people in one place ever before including multiple forums I've visited in the past....The Mrs. DR1VEN is going to appreciate reading this.

Please keep the comments coming if anyone else cares to contribute.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Thank you Thank you Thank you...as always! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
In honor of RebNavy...RIP buddy. You made me smile. :)

Postby rebnavy1862 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:00 pm
Driven, are you sure you are from Kalifornia? You make a lot of sense.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby Gunns » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:57 am

My sister home schooled all three of her kids. Two of them went on to college but had to take 3 years of classes just to catch up. They both were in college for over 6 years.

So home school isn't all that unless you can teach everything that a public school or charter school can teach. As far a public schools now days it shouldn't be all that tough to out do them.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:45 am

Gunns wrote:My sister home schooled all three of her kids. Two of them went on to college but had to take 3 years of classes just to catch up. They both were in college for over 6 years.

So home school isn't all that unless you can teach everything that a public school or charter school can teach. As far a public schools now days it shouldn't be all that tough to out do them.



Really????....This is something I've never heard.

I do have a very limited exposure to it still but I thought there is basic curriculum and testing done in home school lesson plans that stops this from happening...... I mean, I had an "F" average if not "Incomplete" from 7th thru 9th, I dropped out in the 9th grade. I took a single JOKE of a test in 1 afternoon without any studying, passed the GED, and attended college with that cert alone....

How is what you say possible? Is there something I'm missing here GUNNS?.. Different rules by state??....anyone?
In honor of RebNavy...RIP buddy. You made me smile. :)

Postby rebnavy1862 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:00 pm
Driven, are you sure you are from Kalifornia? You make a lot of sense.
Reb"Then call us Rebels if you will, we glory in the name, for bending under unjust laws and swearing faith to an unjust cause, we count as greater shame". Richmond Daily Dispatch May 12 1862
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:55 am

never mind all...I already found this.... http://www.onlinecollege.org/2012/06/11/the-homeschoolers-guide-to-getting-into-college/

Thanks for the heads up Gunns but you're more correct in that it's no longer the case about college entry.... Seems from the above link they're recruiting homeschoolers more even more aggressively than publicly educated kids now.....I'll do more research on it to be sure. Thanks for the input.
In honor of RebNavy...RIP buddy. You made me smile. :)

Postby rebnavy1862 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:00 pm
Driven, are you sure you are from Kalifornia? You make a lot of sense.
Reb"Then call us Rebels if you will, we glory in the name, for bending under unjust laws and swearing faith to an unjust cause, we count as greater shame". Richmond Daily Dispatch May 12 1862
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby anita » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Gunns wrote:My sister home schooled all three of her kids. Two of them went on to college but had to take 3 years of classes just to catch up. They both were in college for over 6 years.

So home school isn't all that unless you can teach everything that a public school or charter school can teach. As far a public schools now days it shouldn't be all that tough to out do them.


As I mentioned before, I have seen people who homeschooled their kids, and since nobody liked math, they didn't bother much with math.

If you are going to home school properly, you need a big commitment. It is almost a full-time job for one parent, and it will require hiring tutors/taking outside classes in areas the parent isn't competent in. I do know of parents who banded together. One parent was a writer, did the English. One spoke Spanish fluently, was the Spanish instructor, etc. So they almost formed their own little school for certain subjects.

I will also say that my evil mother-in-law decided to "home-school" her youngest, my husband's half-sister. She basically did nothing and let the kid read books all year. She was a smart girl, and ended up passing her GED, but she was essentially a high school drop-out who read a lot. The mil just called it home-schooling.

So, there are all sorts. (Don't be THAT sort!)
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby rickdun » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:15 pm

My wife's sister and husband home schooled their son (only child), he is very intelligent and is going to college now, but, he cannot make any friends, is not in any activities, nor was he when being home schooled. The kid led a very sheltered life under his mothers apron strings and has no idea of what's going on in the outside world, I feel bad for the kid.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby contrarian » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:37 am

Gunns wrote:My sister home schooled all three of her kids. Two of them went on to college but had to take 3 years of classes just to catch up. They both were in college for over 6 years.

So home school isn't all that unless you can teach everything that a public school or charter school can teach. As far a public schools now days it shouldn't be all that tough to out do them.

I've met a lot of homeschoolers over the years. In one instance I saw happening what you described -- because the parents weren't teaching, inspiring, or pushing the children. Rather they wanted the kids as a labor source and didn't care about their education. Another possible flaw might be in a parent or child where their personality is such they are able to work with each other. Some parents aren't suited to teaching whom they parent (I wasn't) some children can't separate the parent role from the child role and so on.

Can failures happen in homeschooling? Sure, but I think the failure rate is much higher in the public school. Why do some kids succeed in a public school? Same reason homeschoolers are generally more successful -- involvement of the parents.
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:09 pm

anita wrote:
Gunns wrote:My sister home schooled all three of her kids. Two of them went on to college but had to take 3 years of classes just to catch up. They both were in college for over 6 years.

So home school isn't all that unless you can teach everything that a public school or charter school can teach. As far a public schools now days it shouldn't be all that tough to out do them.


As I mentioned before, I have seen people who homeschooled their kids, and since nobody liked math, they didn't bother much with math.

If you are going to home school properly, you need a big commitment. It is almost a full-time job for one parent, and it will require hiring tutors/taking outside classes in areas the parent isn't competent in. I do know of parents who banded together. One parent was a writer, did the English. One spoke Spanish fluently, was the Spanish instructor, etc. So they almost formed their own little school for certain subjects.

I will also say that my evil mother-in-law decided to "home-school" her youngest, my husband's half-sister. She basically did nothing and let the kid read books all year. She was a smart girl, and ended up passing her GED, but she was essentially a high school drop-out who read a lot. The mil just called it home-schooling.

So, there are all sorts. (Don't be THAT sort!)



No intention of being that sort... ;) Can't even fathom it actually......but then again, we'll have to be critical of ourselves...Eyes wide open :eek:






rickdun wrote:My wife's sister and husband home schooled their son (only child), he is very intelligent and is going to college now, but, he cannot make any friends, is not in any activities, nor was he when being home schooled. The kid led a very sheltered life under his mothers apron strings and has no idea of what's going on in the outside world, I feel bad for the kid.



That's an excellent point Rickdun....Something that will be our major focus will be social involvement and extracurricular activities and weekly fieldtrips. With the accelerated learning we intend/imagine, the "days off/field trips" will be socialization exercises while giving "book breaks" for mom and student so there's less chance of burn out.

We will, at the drop of a hat of course, correct any developing issues or enroll in Private if we're not keeping up with her growth or normal socialization requirements for living a balanced well adjusted life.

Thank you for the input sir!...We agree to watch this subject closely. :thumbup:






contrarian wrote:
Gunns wrote:My sister home schooled all three of her kids. Two of them went on to college but had to take 3 years of classes just to catch up. They both were in college for over 6 years.

So home school isn't all that unless you can teach everything that a public school or charter school can teach. As far a public schools now days it shouldn't be all that tough to out do them.

I've met a lot of homeschoolers over the years. In one instance I saw happening what you described -- because the parents weren't teaching, inspiring, or pushing the children. Rather they wanted the kids as a labor source and didn't care about their education. Another possible flaw might be in a parent or child where their personality is such they are able to work with each other. Some parents aren't suited to teaching whom they parent (I wasn't) some children can't separate the parent role from the child role and so on.

Can failures happen in homeschooling? Sure, but I think the failure rate is much higher in the public school. Why do some kids succeed in a public school? Same reason homeschoolers are generally more successful -- involvement of the parents.



EXCELLENT points and something we agree upon.... We think this is something we would do quite well for her, but, who goes into this thinking differently??? It's going to be essential for us to approach this with eyes wide open with an honest look into criticizing ourselves without letting ego interfere..... Ego, is not your amigo. ;)




Again all, thank you for your input. :thumbup: :thumbsup: :thumbup:
In honor of RebNavy...RIP buddy. You made me smile. :)

Postby rebnavy1862 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:00 pm
Driven, are you sure you are from Kalifornia? You make a lot of sense.
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Semper Fi, Sic Semper Tyrannis, Remember The Alamo, and Aide'toi et Dieu T'aidera!
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Re: Home school Pros Vs. Cons...The dumbing down of our chil

Postby rebnavy1862 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:49 pm

I hire a home schooled teenager to do odd jobs around my place. He has a work ethic, smarter than the average high schooler, and eager to learn. I give him a non-revisionist history lesson while we work. He earns money, learns something, and I get my faith in the new generation restored. Works for both of us.
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