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EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:13 pm

Mollypup wrote:

Point is THAAD had to be in the right spot.

I don't know. I know there were experts on the documentary & I'm certainly not an expert on the topic. So I can't judge them to be right or wrong. Although they had documentation on the failed testing & plenty of video to back up their claims. But I do recall something about it's biggest flaw being it needs to be in the right place at the right time.

Did you read the article I linked? The last 15 our of 15 tests were successful. If they had documentation on failures, those would have been earlier tests. Possibly before the system was fielded.

Failure of new systems is common. Frankly, failures of all military systems are common, especially in war. That is the nature of the game. I watched a missile, fired by Saddam's forces, come streaking down behind my camp in S.A. in 1991. Then it broke up and exploded a dozen miles in the air. No intercept was needed: the missile failed. There were other failures that weren't so sweet. That is the nature of war.

THAAD is one of the best defense missiles ever fielded. I am sure it won't be 100%. Nothing is. And sure, it has to be in the right place. But a dozen of them scattered around the north side of Seoul, and a dozen scattered around the West Edge of Tokyo might save a couple million lives.

That sounds useful to me.

This is a thread that is supposed to be about EMP, and I have totally failed to address that here. :shakeno:
Maybe in another post.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:00 pm

TRex2 wrote:...

This is a thread that is supposed to be about EMP, and I have totally failed to address that here. :shakeno:
Maybe in another post.

Just to get back on the subject of EMP, I have been thinking that the idea that the satellites being EMP devices is pretty far fetched, so I weeded my way thought this (not the first time):
http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/TheoreticalPDFs/TN368.pdf
And my inclinations are right. To provide a reasonably powerful (from a military viewpoint) pulse requires a relatively powerful nuclear device. When he put those satellites in orbit, he didn't have a device powerful enough to justify attempting to use it as an EMP weapon. This latest thermonuclear device is powerful enough, but it is the first device powerful enough to be useful at the altitude those satellites are orbiting. In addition, his warheads have all weighed more than three times as much as those satellites are estimated to weigh, since he just didn't have the miniaturization technology to make them any smaller, until this year.

Bottom line, the satellites cannot be an EMP threat.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby Straydog » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:42 pm

TRex2 wrote:
TRex2 wrote:...

This is a thread that is supposed to be about EMP, and I have totally failed to address that here. :shakeno:
Maybe in another post.

Just to get back on the subject of EMP, I have been thinking that the idea that the satellites being EMP devices is pretty far fetched, so I weeded my way thought this (not the first time):
http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/TheoreticalPDFs/TN368.pdf
And my inclinations are right. To provide a reasonably powerful (from a military viewpoint) pulse requires a relatively powerful nuclear device. When he put those satellites in orbit, he didn't have a device powerful enough to justify attempting to use it as an EMP weapon. This latest thermonuclear device is powerful enough, but it is the first device powerful enough to be useful at the altitude those satellites are orbiting. In addition, his warheads have all weighed more than three times as much as those satellites are estimated to weigh, since he just didn't have the miniaturization technology to make them any smaller, until this year.

Bottom line, the satellites cannot be an EMP threat.


Well, maybe. It is clear he has had some help with developing his current "toys". Who is to say one of the usual players didn't donate him a few things to play with back then. My thought is your likely correct but part of war is psychological so again, whose to say? :?
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:19 am

Straydog wrote:
Bottom line, the satellites cannot be an EMP threat.

Well, maybe. It is clear he has had some help with developing his current "toys". Who is to say one of the usual players didn't donate him a few things to play with back then. My thought is your likely correct but part of war is psychological so again, whose to say? :?

Certainly, psychology, and dirty psychology at that, is part of war, which is why I wish I could get my economics guy to stay away from the subject. He is great at economics, but doesn't understand the games we play. (Well, I used to, anyway. I am retired now.)

While anything is possible, not everything makes sense if you draw the game out to a reasonable conclusion. On the other hand, mutually assured suicide isn't beyond certain people, one of whom is KJU, and that is why we are concerned about them having nuclear weapons.

Let's be clear. The only player who owns miniaturized nuclear
weapons and who is not an adversary of N. Korea is China,
so that is the only other player I will address here.

China has been playing this to destabilize our foreign policy, but they know if it actually goes down, they will not emerge intact. So while their game is reckless, I don't think they are suicidal. China has been giving this guy lots of leash to play with, but they still think they have this under control. I am concerned, because I am not so sure they do have it under control. WW1 was started by a diplomatic blunder (in the months following the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife), among powers that did not want war at all.

For China to remain in control of the game, they must give KJU weapons that keep the region on edge, but they must keep him from actually precipitating war. They know that if KJU actually precipitates nuclear war, they stand to lose half their economy (more or less, and along with, perhaps, a million of their people) which is why they told KJU that if he starts a war with us, he is on his own.

Now, with that last idea in mind, it would make no sense to provide KJU with orbital nuclear weapons. In addition to the above argument, KJU's launch vehicles were, at the time, unreliable, and that is another reason China wouldn't have given him such weapons. Had they crashed and we recovered the debris, it would have pointed to them.

Now, maybe we can explore what might precipitate into a real EMP scenario.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby rickdun » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:00 am

Whether North Korea can cause an EMP is unknown and is anybodies guess, just like they said North Korea was years away from developing an ICBM capable of reaching the U.S., but here's an article posted yesterday on the possibility of them delivering an EMP:


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/05 ... -grid.html
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:08 am

rickdun wrote:Whether North Korea can cause an EMP is unknown and is anybodies guess, just like they said North Korea was years away from developing an ICBM capable of reaching the U.S., but here's an article posted yesterday on the possibility of them delivering an EMP:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/05 ... -grid.html

Worthy of the MSM, that report is disappointing, even disheartening from Fox News. She plays fast and loose with wording and the article is designed to whip up hysteria more than to inform.

She makes this statement, but then provides absolutely nothing to support it:
According to Kazianis, an EMP delivered by a nuclear weapon would not just fry power grids but also carry the destructive power of an atomic device.

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un at an undisclosed location inspecting the loading of a hydrogen bomb into a new intercontinential ballistic missile. (Korean Central News Agency/Korea News Service via AP)
“That in it of itself is going to kill thousands if not millions depending on the size of it and where it is dropped.
And the statement "depending on the size of it and where it is dropped" is just nonsense, since and EMP is the result of a nuclear weapon that isn't "dropped."

Also, this statement, while true, is extremely deceptive:
Also, nuclear weapons carry radioactive fallout that would be spread thousands of miles through the atmosphere and oceans,” he continued. “We would be adding to such a casualty count sadly for decades thanks to cancer cases that would arise many years later.”

The effect of the EMP on our society would be millions of casualties,
and the cancer, years later, would add a few dozen more casualties.
In fact, depending on the solar winds at the time, maybe none.

I could go on for another three paragraphs, but the point is made.
Fox in no longer as reliable as it should be. They aren't wholly
communist propaganda, like CNN and NBC, but they are not a good
source for technical subject matter.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:45 pm

Not EMP and not Korea. DIL just talked to her aunt in Russia. Her mom was getting ready to take a
trip here to visit she and her sister. Well as of last night apparently no Russians are being allowed to
come to the US. No further information other then she has to turn her tickets back in and its a no
go. Have heard nothing on the news about this. Makes one wonder if its in prep for something little
fat boy is going to do.

She is going to talk to her mom and others and see if that is what is happening.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:47 pm

According to many, the listeners of fox news are the most uninformed in the country.
Big division in Murdocks family, they said when he is gone his kids and wife will not
support all the far right stuff he is. They are fighting it now apparently.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:13 pm

PatrioticStabilist wrote:According to many, the listeners of fox news are the most uninformed in the country.
Big division in Murdocks family, they said when he is gone his kids and wife will not
support all the far right stuff he is. They are fighting it now apparently.

Listeners of Fox News are less likely to swallow the cool aid of lies,
fake news and hateful rhetoric of the Criminal Left,
so the Criminal Left labels them as "uninformed."

Makes sense to me.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:16 pm

There are a lot of facts that I have checked over time, fox never covers or reports it. I don't know why, they
don't want you to know or just afraid if folks hear the truth they may abandon them. It's probably different
reasons but I want to actually know whats going on, right, left, or middle.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:17 pm

PatrioticStabilist wrote:Not EMP and not Korea. DIL just talked to her aunt in Russia. Her mom was getting ready to take a
trip here to visit she and her sister. Well as of last night apparently no Russians are being allowed to
come to the US. No further information other then she has to turn her tickets back in and its a no
go. Have heard nothing on the news about this. Makes one wonder if its in prep for something little
fat boy is going to do.

She is going to talk to her mom and others and see if that is what is happening.

Lousy to be physically on the wrong side of a war, no matter where your heart is.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:43 pm

I don't want to see any war, but its looking more probable all the time.

I just want our son our of S Korea.

Oh MIL was heading to the west coast for a visit in Seattle, makes one
wonder if something is going to happen or just part of the US and Russias
cat and mouse games.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby Mollypup » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:29 am

PatrioticStabilist wrote:Not EMP and not Korea. DIL just talked to her aunt in Russia. Her mom was getting ready to take a
trip here to visit she and her sister. Well as of last night apparently no Russians are being allowed to
come to the US. No further information other then she has to turn her tickets back in and its a no
go. Have heard nothing on the news about this. Makes one wonder if its in prep for something little
fat boy is going to do.

She is going to talk to her mom and others and see if that is what is happening.


That is not a good sign.

I have a friend/coworker who's fiancee is Russian & living over there. I'll run this past him, maybe he'll ask to see what her or her family has heard about traveling to the US. She & her family are usually pretty open about such things.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby TRex2 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:12 am

PatrioticStabilist wrote:There are a lot of facts that I have checked over time, fox never covers or reports it. I don't know why, they
don't want you to know or just afraid if folks hear the truth they may abandon them. It's probably different
reasons but I want to actually know whats going on, right, left, or middle.

There may be things on the right that they may think the public is not ready to hear, and therefore omit, but if they ignore something on the left, it is more likely than not, fake news.

Here is how I think the MSM comes up with stories that aren't on Fox:
How do the Chicago Tribune, Huffington Post. NYTimes, Washington Post, CNN and NBC each come up with a story to embarrass the Trump administration, each with 5 anonymous sources?
Well, it starts with a representative from each all in one room, making up stories...
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #6 (Sept 2017)

Postby Mollypup » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:21 pm

All news sources edit according to what they feel is important, what they judge their audience wants / needs to know. There is no such thing as unbiased or objective news. Never has been. Once you understand that & learn to do your own research, you'll be fine.

I have found some tend to try to be more objective than others, however.

Typically? I read / listen to both sides, do some research to fill it in........and the objective view is somewhere in the middle, which you have to come up with via the research to balance it out.
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