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Ice storm

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Re: Ice storm

Postby oldasrocks » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:35 pm

NJMike wrote:@Woodchipper- Water increases approximately 9% in volume as it expands when frozen, so to play it safe you may want to remove 5 gallons from each full barrel, as a 50 gallon volume with a 10% increase in frozen expanded volume gets one to 55 gallons. However, a larger volume of water takes a bit of time to freeze, and a 55 gallon drum is not the same as a 12oz water bottle freezing in a car overnight. If the drop in temperature to below freezing is hours vs. days or weeks then you may be ok. IF you do freeze a full barrel, I suspect a first point of failure may be the screw in bungs deforming and popping out. I haven't tested that assumption, but perhaps someone here has some first hand experience on it.



I disagree. I have had 1/2 full barrels split wide open. The water expands sideways. Buy a cheap bird feeder deicer and drop it in the barrel.
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Re: Ice storm

Postby Photon Guy » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:13 pm

rickdun wrote:Sorry to hear about your heating system, we just had a new oil/hot water furnace but in (Nov.), it replaced the original furnace that was put in in 1968. We don't really use the furnace unless we're unable to keep the wood burner roaring.

ALL fossil fuels give off carbon monoxide, gas, propane, oil, kerosene, etc.. I wouldn't worry about your propane heater no more then I would worry about our gas stove.

You ever thought about getting a fireplace insert, they really throw the heat, even without the fans being used? Just make sure you have carbon monoxide detectors, we have three of them, one on each floor.


Your original furnace was from 1968? Wow, its been around longer than I have. I didn't know they lasted that long. My heater is from 1989 so its a few years short of being 30 which I thought was a long time for a heater. As for using kerosene indoors but not propane, that's just what the fellow at the hardware store told me, that propane gives off carbon monoxide so you wouldn't want to use it indoors but kerosene is fine to use indoors. Maybe kerosene gives off less CO than propane. What I really want is an electric heater, they're best for use indoors but unfortunately they're sold out in my area. I didn't know about fireplace inserts, I will look into those.
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Re: Ice storm

Postby Photon Guy » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:25 pm

ForwardPreppers wrote:Sorry Photon but propane heaters are safe for indoor use IF you have one that is rated for indoor use. Not all propane heaters can be used indoors so you must choose one for your intended use. You can even search "indoor propane heaters" at many retailers. I think it must have an ODS - oxygen depletion sensor - for indoor use.

We purchased our wall mounted, 1 brick propane heater for the bathroom from our local propane company that installed our tanks and supplies our propane. We have friends who have larger units installed in their homes as well.

A CO detector is a must if you have gas in your home - should something be faulty, it will save your life. We had one go off in our camper once, come to find out it was just old and needed to be replaced but it certainly scared us in the middle of the night!

One thing we don't do is run them at night while we are asleep, I'm just too cautious for that but we do like it colder when we sleep.

Mrs FP


I just did an internet search and the kind of propane heater I've got, the Mr. Heater Portable Buddy heater which I got at Cabela's does come up as being safe for indoor use although I don't know anything about my heater having a ODS. I thought that if you were burning gas that its best to have some way of venting the fumes outside just like how a chimney vents the smoke outside from a fire in the fireplace. Lots of people have gas stoves in their kitchens including me and I suppose some stoves made for indoor kitchens do burn propane but my kitchen stove does have an overhead fan for venting out fumes. I do have smoke detectors although Im not sure if they detect CO, I will have to look into that.
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Re: Ice storm

Postby ForwardPreppers » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:59 pm

Photon, bless your heart, you've had a time of it but now is the time for you to learn all this!

A CO detectors are separate from a smoke detector, although I have seen them combined. However, it is my understanding that the smoke detector is placed high and a CO detector is placed low since smoke rises but gas falls (is heavy). We were puzzled to see a combo unit at Lowes.

Also, a gas stove doesn't require a fume hood, these hoods are more for food smells/grease not lingering in the house. Heck, most don't even vent to outside - ours does because we planned it that way.

A high efficiency fireplace insert with a blower is a great way to utilize a built in wood burning fireplace, which aren't real efficient. We have an actual high efficiency fireplace not an insert because we had it built to accommodate it. They make them that go right into an existing fireplace. I would recommend having a certified installer, it also may be required by your home owners insurance. We chose this avenue rather than a wood burning stove due to asthma and allergies in our household. Now a drawback is that I cannot cook like some folks do on their stove but I have several alternatives besides my propane stove.

Hope I'm not overloading you with info but I hope you get this heating situation figured out before there's a more serious event.
Good luck!

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Re: Ice storm

Postby Illini Warrior » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:34 am

[quote="ForwardPreppers"]Photon, bless your heart, you've had a time of it but now is the time for you to learn all this!

A CO detectors are separate from a smoke detector, although I have seen them combined. However, it is my understanding that the smoke detector is placed high and a CO detector is placed low since smoke rises but gas falls (is heavy). We were puzzled to see a combo unit at Lowes.

Also, a gas stove doesn't require a fume hood, these hoods are more for food smells/grease not lingering in the house. Heck, most don't even vent to outside - ours does because we planned it that way.

A high efficiency fireplace insert with a blower is a great way to utilize a built in wood burning fireplace, which aren't real efficient. We have an actual high efficiency fireplace not an insert because we had it built to accommodate it. They make them that go right into an existing fireplace. I would recommend having a certified installer, it also may be required by your home owners insurance. We chose this avenue rather than a wood burning stove due to asthma and allergies in our household. Now a drawback is that I cannot cook like some folks do on their stove but I have several alternatives besides my propane stove.

Hope I'm not overloading you with info but I hope you get this heating situation figured out before there's a more serious event.
Good luck!


exactly why I wouldn't buy one - my smoke/heat detectors are hardwired in (battery op in reserve) - fairly important to locate them correctly near the ceiling and not in a void corner .... CO2 detectors plug in eazy at the correct height - one of those babies in each bedroom is cheap insurance - saved many a life ....
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Re: Ice storm

Postby NJMike » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:56 am

oldasrocks wrote:
NJMike wrote:@Woodchipper- Water increases approximately 9% in volume as it expands when frozen, so to play it safe you may want to remove 5 gallons from each full barrel, as a 50 gallon volume with a 10% increase in frozen expanded volume gets one to 55 gallons. However, a larger volume of water takes a bit of time to freeze, and a 55 gallon drum is not the same as a 12oz water bottle freezing in a car overnight. If the drop in temperature to below freezing is hours vs. days or weeks then you may be ok. IF you do freeze a full barrel, I suspect a first point of failure may be the screw in bungs deforming and popping out. I haven't tested that assumption, but perhaps someone here has some first hand experience on it.



I disagree. I have had 1/2 full barrels split wide open. The water expands sideways. Buy a cheap bird feeder deicer and drop it in the barrel.


Thank you. Appreciate the first hand experience, which will serve Woodchipper's question better. When I was storing water outdoors it was a pool sized volume rather than barrels and with that freezing and expanding (at the top) was not an issue.

ajax727 wrote:In my area we only got 1/4'' of snow but the temps are now 17 . All animal waters are frozen solid so I have been watering them twice a day using jugs and buckets . Had a pipe to burst but it was at the end of a line so I did not find it till late yesterday , got it capped and recovered .


On the topic of animal water in freezing temps- When I had chickens, I had problems with their water can freezing. After getting tired of rotating cans and trying to unfreeze the previous day's can early each morning, I switched to use both a plastic heated dog bowl in the coop and a heater base for the metal watering can out in the run. The former was easier to refill, but I had an issue of the chickens often making a mess in the bowl. Not so much a problem with the covered metal can. Both of the heating methods were plugged into a thermistor controlled outlet that came on at 35 degrees and went off around 45 degrees. For those looking to keep their water from freezing with a heater/de-icer, the product I used at the end of an outdoor extension cord was called "TC-3 Thermo Cube Air Temp Outlet" and is available on Amazon. I used it to save on electricity going to the heaters and to have something more controllable over unpredictable winter nights. Of course that's assuming grid electricity or otherwise generating electricity to warm that water.
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Re: Ice storm

Postby JoyDog » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:31 pm

We have propane fired livestock water tank heaters. They work great.
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Re: Ice storm

Postby ajax727 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:34 pm

I use 5 gallon buckets cut in half for our chickens waters , a bath tub for the goats and the plastic water bottles for the rabbits . The buckets work great I just add water on top of the ice till it is at the top and then I just dump the ice out and start all over again . The goats water tub is a little different I just remove the ice and add 5 gallons of water . The rabbit waters are easy I just remove them put up fresh ones and take to frozen one's inside and use them the next day . Our cold snap is kinda over temps 50 today and temps around that for the next few days . The pipe that burst was my fault in away it was a capped off line that was not wrapped up like it should have been . My water pumps are wrapped up and I use light bulb to keep them warm , the only time I lost a water pump was when the bulb burnt out so now I check them everyday when we have a freeze warning or a long stretch of cold weather . Just a little bit of information about my post . All in all things are ok here .
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