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Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby ajax727 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 pm

They weren't ready before the false alarm and they want be prepared for the next one be it real or a false . An as usual they line to blame everybody for them not being ready . Heck it could have been staged to see how they would react or so some could say it was Trump's fault .
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby ForwardPreppers » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:02 pm

I'm not usually a conspiracy theory person but I don't think it was an accident. I can't pinpoint why but the fella who did it resigned immediately. That just doesn't smell right to me. Maybe he doesn't need to work any more, maybe he's gonna retire to California. 8)

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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby Blondie » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 pm

ForwardPreppers wrote:I'm not usually a conspiracy theory person but I don't think it was an accident. I can't pinpoint why but the fella who did it resigned immediately. That just doesn't smell right to me. Maybe he doesn't need to work any more, maybe he's gonna retire to California. 8)

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My thoughts, too.

You would think there would be a series of controls, a second set of eyes/fingers to flip The Real Thing Switch.

It comes on the heels of Fridays uproar over Chithole Countries that had more than a few threatening to shutdown the Fed on 1/19.

This weeks budget chatter will likely switch to infrastructure.
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby IceFire » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:27 pm

If nothing else, the "faux pas" served to show them how NOT prepared they are. Maybe it will motivate at least a few to get off their duffs and DO something towards preparedness. Probably a pipedream, I know. We can always hope.
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby ReadyMom » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:47 pm

IceFire wrote:If nothing else, the "faux pas" served to show them how NOT prepared they are. Maybe it will motivate at least a few to get off their duffs and DO something towards preparedness. Probably a pipedream, I know. We can always hope.


Yup ... a FEW ... *maybe* ... :crazy: ... :bored:
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby farmer_dude48 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 am

Just a quick question and I know it may not make sense to anybody...

Why wasn't the United States alerted of any potential strike on Hawaii ??

I think a little heads up wouldn't have hurt anything.. Just curious
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby rickdun » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:24 am

Japan just had a false missile warning:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/w ... alert.html

Farmer: The U.S. mainland is tied into the DOD alert system and Hawaii has their own through the state homeland security, that's according to FOX news. Don't make sense to me either, even though DOD new it was a false alarm within minutes of the Hawaiian false alarm
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby 3ADScout » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:21 pm

farmer_dude48 wrote:Just a quick question and I know it may not make sense to anybody...

Why wasn't the United States alerted of any potential strike on Hawaii ??

I think a little heads up wouldn't have hurt anything.. Just curious


Each state emergency management or civil defense agency has the ability to activate the wireless alerts to cell phones and the emergency alert system. The Feds can initiate a message but each state can too
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby Illini Warrior » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:11 pm

3ADScout wrote:
farmer_dude48 wrote:Just a quick question and I know it may not make sense to anybody...

Why wasn't the United States alerted of any potential strike on Hawaii ??

I think a little heads up wouldn't have hurt anything.. Just curious


Each state emergency management or civil defense agency has the ability to activate the wireless alerts to cell phones and the emergency alert system. The Feds can initiate a message but each state can too




or the state could issue their own emergency alert and purposely diminish & negate a federal one that's been issued ....

when you start thinking about CA, HI, OR, WA, VA, NJ and few other states - would they even follow an emergency decreed by Prez Trump - or put up another one of their liberal hissy fits - screw the possible dangers to the civilian population ....

this being especially true if Prez Trump wanted to federalize their national guard units ....
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby Dirk Williams » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:44 pm

A bit of miss information here. This was the State, not the Feds. The responsible party did not resign nor was he fired, he was disiplined and transfer.

While scary a lot was learned by this mishap. Initially I just thought it a sad accident, now with the same incident in Japan, with no explication, one has to,wonder.

Third.

Why would NK, shoot at the islands, that just tips their hand, into their intent. If the media is accurate, they DO have missle platforms quit capable of hitting main land USA. Also the missle track for Hawaii is markedly different then the missile track for our country. NS VS EW directionally, im told.

I live down the street from the only F-15 training base in the US. The 15s sure are flying a lot more then normal, lately. Their not to bad noise wise, unless their clicking their AB for roll out.

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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby TRex2 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:54 am

NJMike wrote:I found out Saturday by checking a phone news app shortly after...basically around the time it was declared a false warning. I assume there's more to this story, and interested to see what's disclosed if anything. My lessons learned:

1st- Had this truly been the start of a general attack, I'd have not had as much notice as those in Hawaii, and likely less or insufficient time to react.

2nd- I'm disturbed and disappointed with our nation's alert system, because had it been an actual ballistic missile going to any of our 50 states, I'd want the same alert as the potential target state(s). I got nothing, and had I not been checking news wouldn't have know for even longer. Even though this was said to be a mistaken alert, we really should be alerted in all of the U.S. whenever any part of the U.S. is presumably under attack and alerted.


While I am not sure what you think you would react to in the event Hawaii got attacked, it is unlikely you would get much warning if the U.S. was attacked, either. The US does not have any sort of coherent warning system. When the SHTF, if the LFM is smart, we will wake up to a world like Aunt Bee described in "A Great Perhaps."
viewtopic.php?f=263&t=49726

Most of the US doesn't have a coherent system in place because no one thinks it will happen.

If you want better warning, you need to be part of a "Home Grown" Network that will alert you.
(I think AmRRON has a setup like that, but I am not sure.)
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby Mollypup » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:22 pm

I was suspicious with the Hawaii alert. I said so from the beginning.

From people I spoke with & with what was going across my fb feed...... I had reason to be suspicious. Now I don't know if it was a stunt set to achieve a goal of some sort; such as pointing fingers at Trump (keep in mind I can't stand the guy), or some phooey missile that didn't get very far on it's own accord or we helped it in that dept or what.

Such systems are set up with fail safes for sound reason & it's not to prevent panic, it's to prevent US from pushing our own buttons like we came so close to doing to Cuba. I doubt very much ONE single person is able to sound an alert of that sort. Most likely it takes more than one & a process. I've had people who should know say there is no way one guy did this, for whatever reason. Not something I know about so I can't personally say yes or no, just that it felt totally wrong all the way across the board.

Next thing you know, AFTER our media puts the Hawaii incident out there for the world to see, Japan has their own "false alert", supposedly via their media. Ya'll know how I feel about coincidences. There is no such thing. I didn't bother to read into this one at all, figuring it would be doctored like the Hawaii one so not much point. Although one seriously has to wonder why on earth would a country's media do such an irresponsible thing immediately following our incident?? The Japanese are usually much more responsibly thorough than that. It doesn't make sense.

I didn't see a whole lot in the way of any sort of panic. I did see quite a lot of responsible logical behavior in a believed dire emergency situation by an awful lot of people. This impressed me given the sheeple mentality of the last couple of decades. No, not everyone, but you could drill from morning till night for months & still not have everyone act appropriately, human nature. Let's just say more people reacted logically that I certainly ever expected to see.

As far as comparing the movie to the warning in Hawaii...... If you're going to see panic, it's going to be within the first hour. So to say you can't compare the two? Yes, yes you can. Once the alert is sounded, it's open season on panic. The longer it takes from alert to disaster.......if it takes long enough the panic will begin to subside (adrenaline rush only sustains for so long) I've seen the movie, both when it first came out & not too long ago. Never did think it was very realistic.

Having been through a disaster that could've wiped more than half a fairly large city off the map, gotten roused out of bed by the initial explosion (no one had a clue what had exploded), the alert to Get Out & Get Out NOW! don't stop for anything, not even to dress.... The only behavior I could see as likely panic shutting down logic thinking was when miles long lines of cars sat dead still in bumper to bumper traffic, instead of just leaving the cars & walking out of the area which would've been ridiculously faster. No one looted anything that I recall or stopped for anything. But they did just stupidly sat in their cars for hours. omg

And I've got to point out if I think a nuclear missile has got my area on target & is honing in.....I'm not going to worry for a minute if a storm drain is sanitary. :rofl:

Sadly, now if there are any alerts in either the US or Japan, there is a 90 percent chance people are going to assume it's another false alarm, which is going to make the death toll much higher. :shakeno:

When the real alert comes you're only going to have minutes to react. I should make that IF an alert is sounded. Odds are the first targets will never hear an alert.
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Re: Lessons from Hawaii attack warning

Postby TRex2 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:21 am

Mollypup wrote:I was suspicious with the Hawaii alert. I said so from the beginning.

A lot of people are suspicious of the Hawaii alert. And a lot of people get their jollies from posting stuff to FarceBook to make people more suspicious. Having worked in government, and around those people who like to stir the rumor mill, I am not suspicious. Sometimes working in those places is like working in a "river of stupid." Remember, government can be wrong 100% of the time, and they never go bankrupt and out of business, like a corporation would.

Mollypup wrote:Such systems are set up with fail safes for sound reason & it's not to prevent panic, it's to prevent US from pushing our own buttons like we came so close to doing to Cuba. I doubt very much ONE single person is able to sound an alert of that sort. Most likely it takes more than one & a process. ...

Next thing you know, AFTER our media puts the Hawaii incident out there for the world to see, Japan has their own "false alert", supposedly via their media. ... Although one seriously has to wonder why on earth would a country's media do such an irresponsible thing immediately following our incident?? The Japanese are usually much more responsibly thorough than that. It doesn't make sense.
If you were looking at our National alert system you would be 100% correct. But the systems that had false alarms are not that sophisticated. One was state level, and the one in Japan was at a "Television Network." These are more like a home grown system. I don't know much about the one in Japan, but the one in Hawaii only required a click of a mouse, or touch a screen, and then answer something like "are you sure?" with another click of a mouse. Kinda like deleting the wrong file on a computer. (which I have done)

Mollypup wrote:I didn't see a whole lot in the way of any sort of panic. I did see quite a lot of responsible logical behavior in a believed dire emergency situation by an awful lot of people.

You are correct. Most of the behavior was reasonable under the circumstances, since the public doesn't understand that if LFM aims at Hawaii, and even if we don't interfere, he only has about 5% chance of hitting the island. (Not the city, the Island) and his nukes are small enough the damage radius where it hits will only be about 10 city blocks. (There is a simulator, the link is in a different thread on this forum.) The panic was psychological, were a lot of people sent out their "I am going to die in the next few minutes" messages to their loved ones. The odds of them dying was not much more that day than any other (traffic, heart attack etc).

Mollypup wrote:Having been through a disaster that could've wiped more than half a fairly large city off the map, gotten roused out of bed by the initial explosion (no one had a clue what had exploded), the alert to Get Out & Get Out NOW! don't stop for anything, not even to dress.... The only behavior I could see as likely panic shutting down logic thinking was when miles long lines of cars sat dead still in bumper to bumper traffic, instead of just leaving the cars & walking out of the area which would've been ridiculously faster. No one looted anything that I recall or stopped for anything. But they did just stupidly sat in their cars for hours. omg
...
That was the 70's, IIRC. There are a lot more looters today, and many are just waiting for the opportunity.

Just a note here, that I consider this forum to be where the best minds are gathered, when it comes to preparedness (if you want to see ignorance, go to City-Data or Topix) but no one of us can know everything. I don't think you worked in or around military alert systems, so it is not surprising you don't know the details of how they worked. I was an AF communications technician for several years, and taught Electronic Warfare, and got to see a lot of it up close.
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